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Mardukm,

That is the only section pertaining to Islam/Muslim in my current copy of the CCC, but we need a more authoritive person to explain it, it is outside my humble knowledge.

james

Putting aside attributing my "pagan moon god" comment to Walnut, I must disagree. Allah was the actual name of the actual Arab moon god. Originally, Mohammed even agreed with the (other) pagans that Allah had three daughter gods, just like the actual Allah (aforementioned false deity), but he then later changed his mind when he had firmed up the support of Mecca's pagans. So, now Allah is the God of Abraham and the god of the Arab pagans. Is Allah also Brahmin, prime god of the Hindus?

The whole concept is specious and was intellectually dishonest of Mohammed. Such falsehood and heresy is not worthy of our respect. If I were to start my own religion, one so opposed to Islam that it involved beer and pork orgies, and then claimed to be worshipping the "god of Mohammed," would I have that right? And should the Supreme Pontiff kiss my holy book? Sadly, these days he might even put it under his pillow.

This hippy-dippy approach has yet to yield any fruit, outside of the slow destruction of the Church. Once Rome is surrounded by the new, hostile civilization of Eurabia, maybe they'll take a new approach.

One of the most charming aspects of the postconciliar regime is their hobby of taking clear statements from the classic CCC, and making them vague and confusing.

And as this comment legitimizing Mohammedanism is not part of extraordinary Magisterium, I am free to disagree and retain my faith. I'll side with all the popes from 700AD to 1965AD.

No, Allah is not Brahmin, the pantheistic concept of Hinduism. He IS acclaimed as the Creator of the Universe, the One who is to judge mankind, the One who revealed Himself to Abraham and so on. He is the God of Israel, of Christendom. I am not saying their concept of Him is not sadly lacking.
Arabic Christians use the name "Allah" to refer to the One God...

Dear Booth, and all who have access to the Catechism of the Catholic Church,

Please go on to read #842,#843,#844....and so on.
Maybe even start at the beginning and read the entire book.

Just like any corner soapbox preacher who picks verses from the Bible and twists them to his own end, the same can be done to the catechism.

Dear Bill,

I'm missing your point here, especially why you specifically referenced me when I was not the one who introduced the CCC, and this late in the conversation, without any previous posts from you on this topic to orient your comments in my mind. Thus, can you please elaborate?

As to avoid repetition, this will be the last time I respond to this particular idea. My point is that just because somebody proclaims something, it doesn't make it true, or worthy of respect. This is Logic 101.

If I proclaim MYSELF as the Creator of the Universe, the One who is to judge mankind, the One who revealed Himself to Abraham, the God of Israel, and of Christendom, does this make me right? Would the Vatican say that "Boothism has some deficiencies, but Boothists worship the one, true God?"

And so what if the word is the same? Following my previous example, if I called myself (or for that matter a demon, as is the case in Islam) Allah, or Yahweh, does that mean Catholics should respect my position? The god of the Koran is clearly not the God of Abraham, especially in light of Mohammed's admitted conversation with demons.

or Muhammed's marriage and martial consumation to a nine year old as well was to a Christian slave, Mary the Copt.

I am aware that many of the greatest Christian evangelizers have not thought so highly of themselves, so I don't expect the message to always be judged by the perfection of the messenger. However, with Mohammed, I do think the message is tainted by the worldliness of the messenger. I don't see anything in Mohammed's life that, to me, indicates any degree of personal holiness. It also seems to me that some of his supposed laws of God are pretty self-serving. I tend to see something similar with Joseph Smith - not that he wasn't holy, but that he was just unbalanced. I am also well aware of Christ's desire for unity and that he really wanted this. But it seems to me that unity in our age has become a kind of false god. The emphasis is on being united, not on what we would all become if the unity existed. Would a dedicated core of Catholic believers who authentically held and preserved the faith of the fathers, be a greater glory to God than some conglomerated mass who believed anything, everything, and nothing? I believe it would. If we truly want unity, then it seems to me that conversion is required before unity can take place.

Booth- Your illogic amazes me. If you started a religion in which you were proclaimed the Creator of the Universe, the Judge of mankind, and so on I and any sane person would conclude that you were deluded, at the least. I actually met a guy in the 70s who claimed to be Jesus Christ returned in the flesh [he called himself Jesus Christ Lightning Amen]. He had a band of white-robed followers who believed him. I saw him in an argument with some evangelicals about a gospel accoount say "Don't tell me, man I WAS THERE!"
Obviously his followers were not worshiping the God of Abraham!
If on the other hand, you -or for that matter, Mr Amen- were to proclaim yourself the Prophet of the One God, describing Him as the transcendent Creator, the coming Judge and so on I might dispute your claim to be a prophet but I would acknowledge that the God you worship is the same one I do.
No Mohammed was not holy, far from it. Joseph Smith was not holy either, but I do not acknowledge that the God he proclaimed is the True God: Smith's god is an exalted man, not above creation. In truth Smith was a polytheist, and totally outside the fold of those who worship the One God, in spite of his use of familiar Christian terminology.
Mohammed, in spite of his personal sins, false claims to be the prophet, and the errors of his teachings, did worship a God I recognize as the One God.

Yeah, and the god of Muhammed was not the Triune God.

We don't worship the same God. We worship God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit and they worship Allah of the "prophet" Muhammed. Muhammed claimed, "The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary was only a messenger of Allah... Far is it removed from His transcendent majesty that he should have a son." Qur�an 4:171

That ain't my God, buddy.

Dear Cizinec,You're right on target.Amen,buddy!

God bless you, Roy. That is the most sensible thing I have heard all day. My God is Three Persons, One God. That is clearly not the God who is portrayed as Allah.

The Fathers would tremble in their graves and likely intercede for a calamity if those who supposedly professed the true faith actually believed the God of Islam is the same God as Father, Logos and Holy Spirit.

"In symbolic manner the theologians fittingly call Thee Mind, and Word, and Spirit, signifying the dispassionate begetting of the Son from the unbegotten Father, as well as the procession of the Divine Spirit, O God who are the sole Source of all". Ode I, Canon to the Holy Trinity in Tone III from the Sunday Midnight Office.

"With the incorporeal choirs in the heavens, we on earth distinguish between Thy Persons, O Unity and Trinity, and with love we glorify Thee as the One Who has dominion over all" Ode IV, Canon to the Holy Trinity in Tone VII from the Sunday Midnight Office.

"With divine songs let us all in godly manner hymn the Father, the Son, and the Spirit divine, the Might in three Hypostases, the one Kingship and Dominion, whom all mortals hymn and the hosts of heaven glorify, the essential Unity in three Hypostases, Who is worshipped with faith by all." Portion of hymn of Gregory the Sinaite, chanted every Sunday at the Midnight Office

The Church teaches that the God of Mohammed was indeed the Triune God, but that Mohamed did not understand and that his followers do not understand.

Who is God who is Father, Son and Holy Spirit? He is the same God that is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The same God recognized by the Jews. Just as the Jews have an incomplete understanding of God because they know the Father but not the Son and the Spirit, the Moslems also have an incomplete understanding of God because they know the Father but not the Son and the Spirit. This does not mean that the Jews and Moslems worship a different God. It means that they do not fully know the God that they worship.

Just as we are to respect the Jews while teaching them the correct belief about the Trinity we are also to respect the Moslems while teaching them the correct belief about the Trinity.

The Church is not stating that it is acceptable not to know Christ. Nor does it state that Moslems are part of the plan of salvation. It is only stating that all those who believe in the true God � even if they do not understand or accept Trinity - are already privileged by this belief. The CCC 841 quote is from Lumen Gentium [vatican.va] paragraph 16, which provides a more complete explanation. LG goes on: �Nor is God far distant from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown God, for it is He who gives to all men life and breath and all things,(127) and as Saviour wills that all men be saved.

Well said, Administrator. If the God of the Muslims is not the God we worship then the Jews also are idolators!