www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Differences between DL in Ruthenian and Melkite Churches

Hi all,

You have been very helpful in helping me to learn in the past, and I hope that your knowledge and experience can come to my aid again. As some of you probably know, I am an RC exploring the East, and am very drawn to Orthodoxy, while being compelled by my belief in the primacy of the Pope to be remain Catholic. In the goal of finding a belief structure and tradition that meets both of these criteria, I took the advice of one more experienced than I (you know who you are and I thank you for your advice) and attended a Melkite Church for the first time the other week. It was very different from what I am used to in the Ruthenian parish that I attend, with the readings read instead of sung (a minor point), but with prayers cut out, most notably the Thrice-Holy hymn, and requests from the deacon that the congregation recite some of the priestly prayers. Is this a common Melkite practice in line with their Bishops and practice, or something unique to this parish or area?

Also, since I know that there are people here from many different individual Churches, both EC and EO, your insight into finding "orthodoxy in communion with Rome" would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Lech

PS - it is late as I type this, so please forgive all funky grammar and "creative" spellings. Thanks

The Melkites employ modified Greek usage as opposed to the Slavic usage of the Ruthenian Church, so there will be differences between them (e.g., the entrances process through the entire nave, as opposed to remaining on the Solea).

As is the case in all Eastern Churches, there are local variations. Reciting as opposed to chanting the readings is not universal practice in the Melkite Church; in our parish, the readings are sung. The Trisagion is never omitted (and doing so is a serious liturgical abuse), and reciting the priestly prayers is simply unprecedented.

In short, good liturgy and bad liturgy are found in every Church (Catholic and Orthodox alike), and you had the great misfortune of encountering very bad liturgy in your visit to a Melkite one.

Since I attend the same Melkite church as StuartK, but have also attended a couple of Ruthenian churches, I'll add just a few comments. In our particular parish everything is sung. Like StuartK affirmed, the Trisagion is never omitted, and so doing is an abuse.

One difference that you'll notice is that we don't recite the prayers before Communion that are recited by the Ruthenians (and presumably the other Slavic churches). Metropolitan Kallistos Ware claims that the Greek practice is to recite those prayers at home before leaving to attend Divine Liturgy.

The chanting style is also very different. Melkites follow the Byzantine style of chant, while the Ruthenians have their own distinct style, of which they are very proud.

The liturgical translations are also different. The Ruthenians currently have the "Revised" Divine Liturgy. If you want to know a little something about that I'd suggest you check out the subforum devoted completely to that topic. Supposedly this "revised" Liturgy follows the "Ruthenian Rescension," which are the official texts for all the liturgical and paraliturgical services promulgated by Rome in the 1940s for the Ruthenians churches (including churches of Ukrainian, Hungarian, Trans-Carpathian, etc. nationalities). The Melkites, on the other hand, refer to the Arabic and Greek texts for their translations of the various Liturgies.

You'll find that in the majority of the Ruthenian churches in the U.S. there are several litanies missing (or made "optional") from the DL that are in the Melkite translations. I can't speak for other Melkite churches, but ours only has one litany missing, and it's not even in the current official translation for the DL.

The last difference I'll mention is the use of the Hours. Most, but not all, Melkite churches at least celebrate Orthros (morning prayer) before the Divine Liturgy. Many also celebrate Vespers on Saturday night. This is something that is very rare among the Ruthenians in the U.S. From what I understand, the Third Hour, instead of Orthros/Matins, is what was customarily celebrated before Divine Liturgy among the Ruthenians. However, most Ruthenian Churches in the U.S. don't even do this. I've heard of some that have a public recitation of the Rosary before Divine Liturgy. I don't know that I've ever heard of a Ruthenian church celebrating any of the Hours, even on Sundays.

I hope this helps a little.

ICXC + NIKA,
Phillip

The really unusual thing about our parish is there are no books. The priests, deacons and the reader have texts, but everybody else just sings from memory. It's pretty remarkable.

I am also an RC exploring the East and I have been attending a Melkite church since approximately September. I have never encountered what you have described. In the parish I attend, everything is sung. To my knowledge, I have never heard the thrice-holy hymn omitted and I have never heard the people recite any of the priest's prayers.

I presumed the lack of pew books was typical of the Melkites. Perhaps I'm wrong? It is pretty amazing that everyone sings from memory. I'm still working on memorizing all the hymns and tones so that I can sing along with everything.

I think a lot of the chants used by the Melkites lend themselves to easy memorization.

I've attended the Melkite church in Atlanta, I don't know, I'd say somewhere between 10 and 15 times, and after the third visit or so, I got one tone down pretty easily. Some are harder (and less beautiful) than others, IMHO.

Alexis

I don't know about your preceding point but this last one seems to be the implementation of the new revised Melkite Liturgy which has provision for lay people to offer the petitions of the Ektene and join the priest in praying the Prayer of Thanksgiving after Communion. It was discussed here:
https://www.byzcath.org/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/345413/1

Lech,

If you attended the Melkite Divine Liturgy on Easter then substitution of "All you who have been baptized into Christ" rather than "Holy God" is appropriate (for the Ruthenians...I assume the same is true of the Melkites.)

Fr Deacon Paul

"All You Who Have Been Baptized" replaces the Trisagion at Pascha and Theophany in all Byzantine Churches, but the impression given by Lech was this happened some time after Pascha.

My parish in San Diego- Holy Angels Ruthenian Catholic Church- celebrates both Vespers on Saturday nights and Matins before Divine Liturgy every Sunday.

In fact I'm going to Vespers for the Mid Pentecost right now. I'm not sure if our parish is the norm but there is at least one (and I assume more) that celebrate Matins & Vespers each weekend in the Ruthenian Catholic Church.

Do you celebrate Vespers, or the "vespergy" that is all too common in Ruthenian parishes? I once asked my pastor (back in my Ruthenian days) why he did not offer Vespers on Saturday evening, since this was encouraged by the Liturgical Instruction and also "fulfilled the Sunday obligation" of the faithful. And I was told that "our bishops did not accept that particular instruction" because of the "strong Eucharistic orientation of Ruthenian piety"--which I took to mean that Ruthenians don't show up for liturgies that don't offer communion. Father Nicholas of Holy Resurrection made reference to this tendency in a lecture he gave at an Orientale Lumen conference, pointing to it as an example of a divergence between Greek Catholics and Orthodox spirituality, which (he said) could only be rectified by fidelity to the Typicon.

In any case, it is exceedingly unusual for a Ruthenian parish to offer Saturday Vespers, and Orthros is virtually unknown. In fact, I have seen Ruthenian priests and deacons get "deer in the headlights" looks when it was suggested that they might want to celebrate Orthros, and more than once I have seen a priest really struggle through the service when called upon to do so.

As might be expected, Abbot Nicholas was one of the few who seemed absolutely comfortable with the service.

I believe the Cathedral of St. John in Parma celebrates matins (in English and Slavonic) every Sunday before Divine Liturgy...

Our Priest serves Great Vespers every Saturday and Vespers during the week (not every week but almost) and celebrates Matins at least once or twice a week apart from Sunday.

Where can I find this "Liturgical Instruction"? I would like to see it, and to be able to refer to it.

In my Ruthenian parish, we have a vigil liturgy on Saturdays at 5pm, so that if someone won't be able to make it to DL that Sunday for some reason, they can "fulfill their Sunday obligation" by attending the vigil liturgy. On average, only about 1-3 people attend. I've brought up the issue of Great Vespers several times, including the fact that, from what I understand, one can "fulfill the Sunday obligation" by attending it. One response has been that we have so many people who have come over from the Roman Church, that unless it is a Eucharistic celebration, they won't come, they'll go to an RC Mass instead, and that it's better to have a vigil liturgy and keep them at the Byz Cath church. IMHO, I believe it's better to offer Great Vespers. A bit of re-education would have to be done, but I think that's a good thing. Some would still choose the Mass, of course, but at least we'd be restoring our tradition, which I think is important.