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I read that the purpose of fasting in the Orthodox Church is to learn discipline and to commemorate Christ's sacrifice and not to do something "sacrificial" or "give something up".

I wondered about Mark 9:29 "Some things can only be cast out by prayer and fasting."

In the interest of full disclosure, I'm of 2 minds on this myself. I've begun to question the idea of the necessity of fasting in terms of fulfilling a particular intention. How can it be that our fasting has any affect on God's will or action?

On the other hand, in light of Mark 9:29, Jesus seems to be saying that it does.

Thanks!

Those 'things' are labeled as 'demons' in other translations. If the situation or obstacles you are praying about have come because it is a demonic attack, prayer and fasting will indeed cast it out and you will be delivered from that situation and/or obstacle and things will get better; the deliverance will be the answer to your particular prayer.

Demonic attacks are not the dramatic attacks we see in movies...however, certain things go wrong in our lives and we undergo certain trials because either the demons are challenging our faith in God or because, as Elder Porphyrios says in the book 'Wounded by Love', our souls are interconnected and bad feelings from people towards us can hurt us just as good feelings can bless us.

The fasting and prayer together are quite efficacious in these types of instances, just as our Lord said.

Let me give you a recent example which comes to mind:

The current Archbishop of Limassol, Cyprus, Athanasios is a very holy man and was once a monk on Mt. Athos. When the people voted him to be a candidate for the newly opened position of Archbishop (something he did not seek), some supporters of the other candidate made up terrible slanders against him which were brought to court. Before the court trial, he fasted and prayed for weeks, since slander is a tool of the devil which those who are morally weak use to destroy others.

At the trial, the lies were exposed and his good name and reputation was cleared.

This is one of many stories about holy people and saints which I have come across who have used this powerful armor which our Lord has given us. Fasting for Orthodoxy is a discipline when prescribed for certain days, but Orthodox also use it as armor for intentions. In the latter case, I would say that it is sacrificial.

Humbly,
In Christ,
Alice

Thank you so much for that beautiful explanation, Alice. I guess I wonder, sometimes, *why* fasting works, if that makes sense. What is it about fasting that allows God to answer a prayer and cast out a demon? (Perhaps this is something that we are not really meant to understand...)

This is the easiest of your questions. It has, because one of the purposes of fasting is to be more directed towards God, "more holy", and the more holy we are the more effect our prayers have ("The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much."). Probably there's no other way to achieve such "level of direction towards God". St. Thomas Aquinas wrote in Summa Theologica:


But does the Orthodox Church really deny fasting as a way of "cleansing from the stain of sin" (I don't want to use the Western legalist word "satisfaction")?

I would expand that question: what's the theology behind offering any deed to God in a particular intention? Does the Eastern theology allow such kind of spirituality? Offering our everyday works to God as a mean of sanctification is popular in a wide range of Western Catholicism, from Opus Dei to the SSPX.

The purpose of fasting in the Eastern Christian Tradition is to gain mastery over the passions, beginning with the most obvious and easily controlled passion, hunger. Our entire ascetic practice is directed towards that end, and the concept of mortifying the flesh to atone for some sin is not part of our patrimony. Indeed, when we go to confession, and our priest or spiritual father gives us a particular set of spiritual exercises or chores to do, the objective is generally prophylactic, not expiatory. We are not so much concerned with atoning for past sins--a contrite heart is what God requires--but to strengthen our souls and spirits against future sins.

Beyond that, the liturgy does not end with dismissal from the Liturgy; our entire lives are meant to be lived liturgically, constantly offering a sacrifice of praise to God through our thoughts, words, and actions.

What about the Passion? It was precisely mortification of the flesh to atone God the Father for sins. If it wasn't so, then why Jesus had to die? Why contrite heart wasn't enough?

Actually, the inability to offer suffering to God would have rendered all suffering in the world pointless.

This is clearly manifested in the Tridentine Rite, where the Mass ends with reading of the beginning of the Gospel according to St. John.

Indeed, but the concept of sacrifice involves giving something to somebody, which necessarily involves some form of deprivation on the side of the giver, which means that fast can also be a sacrifice to God.

Does "praise" involve thanksgiving and petition?

When I know the malice of my acts, when I am of contrite heart I want to make satisfaction (atone, make sacrifice) to the one I have offended, this is very natural, I think. Are the Easterners really without such sentiments? And it has nothing to do with the concept of sin as violation of law or spiritual illness - evil is the same in both cases, and precisely because I have done evil to God, I want to make some propitiatory sacrifice.

I don't get what's wrong with expiation.

I can think of Orthodox saints who have undertaken ascetic practices that make sense only as an atonement for sins by mortification of the flesh - like wearing a cilice.

Thanks! That makes sense!

Vicarious atonement is also not out thing. Christ's passion ransoms us from bondage to sin and death.


Jesus had to die in order to break the bonds of death. By taking on all of human nature, including mortality, he transformed and sanctified it. Thus death ceased to be a perpetual alienation from God, and became a "falling asleep" while awaiting resurrection. The Paschal Homily [ewtn.com] of St. John Chrysostom expounds upon this. See also the Canon in Resurrection Orthros.


It can.


Nothing's wrong with it, but it is not the principal focus of our asceticism. We are aiming to achieve "dispassion", by which we will be restore the image and likeness of God within us, and thus become partakers in the divine nature.


That can be seen as a mortification, but not necessarily for atonement. More ordinarily it would be done in order to learn to ignore the flesh. John Chrysostom, for instance, wore a hair shirt for that purpose. He also fasted to the point of damaging his health while he was a monk, and his abbot had to order him to moderate his spiritual practices. If the body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, then doing things that intentionally damage it can be considered a sinful, even if done in a spirit of atonement or asceticism.

As a new Western Orthodox (1-1/2 years), fasting is one of those many things I struggle with. In one of our little prayer books it has different "fasts/abstain" lists for different age groups. One list is for 7 to 60 and the other, which is a bit less rigid, is for those 60 and above. I am 65, and fall into the latter category. On Sunday morning, we are not to eat until after the Eucharist, but, for those of us who take several medications in the early morning, this either means we wait til about 1:30 to take them, or take them on an empty stomach, which can make one sick. I really struggle with this because each Sunday morning, prior to going to Mass I eat a small bowl of cereal because my body needs those medications. Sometimes I wonder if I ever will "measure up" to the requirements of Orthodoxy. As a former Evangelical/Charismatic (for 40 years), I find this a most difficult transition, even though I know it is right and God has called me to it.
abby

Church norms were established for the general population in general circumstances. In your case it's probably a just reason to relax the discipline, because it's not the purpose of fasting to make one sick. A spiritual father may give blessing for that.