www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Hi, I'm Orthodox, and I believe in the IC.

And, if I may join our other correspondent in this discussion, where is the proof that these five statements have been ratified by the autocephalous Churches of Orthodoxy? Is there any reality to the claims being made for them? They appear to be, in four cases, just the opinion of one man, and the fifth simply a local concourse of Greek bishops. The standing of all of them is open to challenge!

I was misinformed. It was said by a Ruthenian Catholic on another forum.

It is curious that Father Ambrose is staunch in demanding rock solid proof of Orthodox beliefs yet himself uses the personal opinions of a Catholic layman on another forum as one of his foundations for his source of Catholic theology.

I remind Father Ambrose that he severely cheapens his witness of Orthodoxy each time he distorts. At this point I suggest to our readers that they consider nothing that Father Ambrose posts as true unless they themselves confirm it with other sources. And I know that Father Ambrose has lost membership in other forums because of such behavior.

Excuse me, John, but I have lost membership in ONE forum -CAF.

That was because I was blamed for the numbers of Catholics converting to Orthodoxy on the Forum - a rather unfair charge since I was certainly not the most intellent nor convincing of the Orthodox members (who were also removed from CAF.)

Here is my earlier message. Daniel Barton reproduced these words of Met Kallistos in a monograph which he published on the web. Given that Daniel is a 500% advocate of the Immaculate Conception, I do not see it as likely that he would misrepresent the Metropolitan's words against it.

-oOo-

There is a monograph on the web by Daniel Barton who is a member of the Ruthenian Catholic Church (and a Byzantine priest?)

He writes of his correspondence with Bishop Kallistos Ware and informs us that Bishop Kallistos has no belief in the Immaculate Conception. What is of interest is that Bishop Kallistos advances the same reason for his denial as is advanced by Metropolitan Athanasios (Yevtich) in Victoria Kimball's essay which you have referenced.

Daniel Barton writes:

"In sharing my thoughts with Greek Orthodox Bishop Kallistos Ware, he informed me by letter that he "personally does not believe the doctrine as it changes all of history of mankind".

That should knock on the head the common misapprehension that Bishop Kallistos is a believer in the IC.

Taken from MY BELIEF IN THE IMMACULATE CONCEPTION DOCTRINE
DANIEL JOSEPH BARTON (Of the Byzantine Ruthenian Catholic Church of America)

http://mysticalrose.tripod.com/barton3.html

-oOo-

Father Ambrose,

Once again you blame others for problems you have created. You never quite respond when challenged for your distortion but, rather, you simply blame someone else. Let this be a public warning. You now return to full moderation and if your uncharitable behavior continues you will quickly find that your welcome here is lost.

Again, you cannot continue to demand rock solid Orthodox approved source material as the standard of Orthodox theology while yourself using the personal opinion of a layman as the equivalent of Catholic theology.

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