www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall smoking and drinking

The late Msgr. Arthur Hughes, a priest of the (Latin) diocese of Dallas, was an amazing person. As a young man he converted to Catholicism from some Protestant denomination and studied his new faith so much that priests often referred potential converts to him for instruction. By profession he was in the liquor and beer distribution business. Protestants sometimes asked him how he could be Christian and justify participating in such an "immoral" industry.
He always replied, with a laugh, "At least I'm not as bad as Jesus! All I do is distibute the stuff - He made it!"

He was ordained to the priesthood in his old age, without having to attend the seminary. A very loving, gentle man of Christ if there ever was one. May his memory be eternal.

My humble layman's opinion is that - setting aside the issues of obedience to authority and the jeopardy to one's self and family from law enforcement - of their own nature, they are fine if not done to excess.

I don't think it is possible to use either pot or opium in moderation, since the objective of using it, in both cases, is not simply to relax or to lubricate social relations, but to become intoxicated--to be out of one's right mind, which is to say, to cease to be a "rational sheep" and to revert to an animal state. One can drink alcohol without getting drunk; one cannot smoke pot without getting high (unless, like Bill Clinton, you don't inhale). Even more so, one cannot use opiates for recreational purposes without getting stoned--that's just how those particular alkaloids interact with human body chemistry. Moreover, opiates are chemically addictive in a manner that alcohol and tobacco are not. Most people can drink alcohol and not become alcoholics. A lot of people can smoke cigarettes, and then just quit them, cold turkey. Nobody, but nobody, can use opiates for any length of time and not become physically addicted. Everybody who stops using them goes through the same painful process of withdrawal. And that makes opiates something altogether different from alcohol and tobacco.

Many a pot smoker does smoke a bowl just to relax. Just to get that bit of body buzz and relaxation. Further, at least in Alaska, it's often a social thing. Group of friends get together, pass the pipe and start the discussing of whatever it is. Just like many people do with beer.

One can smoke pot without going "to an animal state"... many of my pot smoking friends discuss philosophy and politics over a bowl of marijuana. Likewise, the effects are comparable directly with alcohol... 1 hit, maybe 2, of good marijuana is comparable to a beer or two; weak marijuana is more like 3-5 hits per beer equivalent. Marijuana's effects do last longer, however.

Further still, some take it for other effects, including nausea suppression, appetite increase, reduction of arthritic pain, reduction of anxiety, and treatment of glaucoma.

In places where it is unlawful to posses, it would be a sin to obtain it. (which, last I checked, included all of the US, per federal law, except by prescription where permitted by the state; several states refuse to enforce federal prohibitions, however.)

As for opioids: most major narcotic pain medications are opium derivatives or synthetics. And they can be taken in moderation. For some, they don't even significantly alter consciousness at therapeutic dosages, while for others, small doses are altering but provide no therapeutic benefit...

Smoking opiate pipes is popular in the Middle East. They don't drink alcohol there, because it's forbidden in Islam, so they use it as a substitute.

I wouldn't know. I never saw this to be the case when I was in college, which is pretty much the last time I associated with people inclined in that direction.


Probably about as meaningful. Though I think one would have to imbibe quite a lot of beer to get to the same buzz most people demonstrated after just one joint--and at Georgetown, people knew their way around both a joint and a keg. At least with beer, your stomach limits how much you can imbibe.

.

Yeah, I heard a lot of those in my dorm. It occurred to me at the time that if only people on grass could hear what they say while they are using it, they would quit cold turkey then and there. Which is to say, people on pot thought "2001" was a profound movie. Enough said for critical judgment and higher thought processes under the influence. Bill Cosby once asked a friend why he smoked pot, and his friend responded, "Because it, like, intensifies your personality, man". And Bill Cosby then asked him, "But what if you're an a--hole?"


The peer reviewed studies are quite a mixed bag, and no scientific consensus exists on this point--though a lot of people act as though there was. Undoubtedly, if THC had a therapeutic effect, pharmacologists would have developed a better and safer transfer mechanism than smoking something that makes a cigarette look positively benign.


Certainly, but I don't think most people would want to suffer chronic or acute pain that justifies their use.


No, they can be taken by prescription according to well-established protocols. The dose is keyed to the pain. If the dose is correct, then there is neither pain nor mental impairment, nor any altered consciousness. In palliative care, massive doses are used in the terminal phases of an illness, which often induce coma or semi-comatose states, but at that point all one is doing is managing pain until death takes its course.


In the first case, that's an indication that dosage is matched to pain levels. In the second, one is simply indulging one's appetite. In all these cases, you ignored the inherent toxicity and addictive properties of opiates which creates a physical dependency, sometimes after just a few casual uses. Even therapeutic use of opiates and other narcotics leads to addiction, and addiction to prescription drugs is verging on a greater problem than use of illegal drugs.

If you want to alter your consciousness, do it the hard way--go out into the desert, fast for several weeks, recite the Jesus Prayer ten thousand times and do a thousand prostrations a day. Drugs are cheating.

That admit it publicly, anyhow.


Indeed that is a more legitimate and positive experience.

As I become older and steadily more boring, I do see the serious moral ramifications of more than the mildest of consciousness alteration.

That said, deriving use or pleasure from substances is fine with me - if done in a way that neither seriously impairs our health nor opens us up to evil forces nor sought in an immoderate and gluttonous fashion. And I don't think many broad statements can be made that apply to everyone's individual physiology and moral circumstances.

If the substance itself has drawbacks - addiction, heath problems with prolonged use, etcetera, then these things must of course be factored in.

But I do not believe that the substance itself can be castigated, nor its use in each-and-every possible circumstance 100% of the time.

Whatever the case, I do not believe it is proper that these moral choices be made for us by the self-interested oligarchy of government and business in the modern prescription system. If a substance is deemed too dangerous for society to handle in the eyes of the powers-that-be ... fine, outlaw it. Past that, it should be a matter for a man and his confessor only.

.

Most of the people I know have security clearances that require polygraph examinations.

When we were in college (60s and 70s), my frat brothers and I used to sing out loud during our frequent gatherings:

"Let's drink all the beer here! For in heaven there's no beer!"

Amado

Beer, Wine, and Bread are proof that God Loves Us and wants us to be happy...

Believe it or not, I am seriously allergic to pot and can't even be around anyone smoking it. Since I am allergic to at least half the prescription drugs on the market, most of them are out, too. Consequently, chocolate is my drug of choice.

I knew that chocolate would make a appearance...

I'm partial to caramel myself...hmmm Milky Ways when the munchies strike...


ps; I forgot that I do partake of some tobacco and a few whiskey products and a few Abbey beers...all in moderation now or medicinal needs

When I was in the missions years and years ago I knew an elderly brother (of a religious order, the one who tended the garden,) who used to bless himself thanking God whenever he drank a glass of beer. Of course, he practiced "moderation in all things" so he didn't partake often; but when he did obviously it was a blessing. I remember his humility and example in this.

James, I am also partial to carmel and milk chocolate. Yummy!

The Latin Church blesses wine in honor of St. John on his feast day, December 27th.

http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/liturgicalyear/prayers/view.cfm?id=965

Day Three ~ Blessing of Wine for the Feast of St. John the Apostle

St. John the Apostle, is the disciple "whom Jesus loved". It is a custom in the old countries to drink of "St. John's Love". The Church provided a special blessing of wine in honor of the Saint. According to legend St. John drank a glass of poisoned wine without suffering harm because he had blessed it before he drank. The wine is also a symbol of the great love of Christ that filled St. John's heart with loyalty, courage and enthusiasm for his Master; he alone of all the apostles was not afraid to stay close to Our Lord during the Passion and Crucifixion.

St. John's wine, blessed by the priest or sprinkled with water by the father of the family, is served with the main meal. In Catholic sections of Europe, even the children receive a little sip of it after the main course of the dinner. The wine is poured in glasses and passed around to the family and guests. As each glass is given, say:

"I drink you the love of St. John."

Response will be "I thank you for the love of St. John."

The following prayer is said over the wine:

Leader: Our help is in the name of the Lord.

All: Who has made heaven and earth.

Leader: The Lord be with you.

All: And also with you.

Leader: Let us pray. Be so kind as to bless and consecrate with Your right hand, Lord, this cup of wine, and every drink. Grant that by the merits of Saint John the Apostle and Evangelist, all who believe in You and drink of this cup may be blessed and protected. Blessed John drank poison from the cup, and was in no way harmed. So, too, may all who this day drink from this cup in honor of Blessed John, by his merits, be freed from every sickness by poisoning and from any harms whatever. And, when they have offered themselves in both soul and body, may they be freed, too, from every fault, through Christ our Lord.

All: Amen.

Leader: Bless, Lord, this beverage which You have made. May it be a healthful refreshment to all who drink of it. And grant by the invocation of Your holy name that whoever tastes of it may, by Your generosity receive health of both soul and body, through Christ our Lord.

All: Amen

Prayer Source: Feast Day Cookbook by Katherine Burton and Helmut Ripperger, David McKay Company, Inc., New York, 1951

In the Orthodoxy in which I live, smoking is a sin, and drinking without control/measure is also a sin. A cold beer glass can be a blessing, but what about those who pass the limit?

For these matters the persons who confess usually receive a canon, even being stopped to receive the Holy Eucharistia during the canon. The Fathers Confessors see these with much seriousness.

Of course, there are theological reasons, but I am not able to write about them. There are serious implications, from social to theological.