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You know, this "freedom of religion" idea is not something you see in the most Catholic country of all -- the Vatican. Have you read about the Papal States, and how they treated the question?

It is a modern, secular, principle which became slowly accepted in Catholic thought (Vatican II). Look how long it took us, and Islam is 400 years younger than us.

And it took us to have secular nations, which regulated religion to an outside "choice" which means less to society as a whole.

It is not _Islam_ you are upset about, it is the ancient regime as a whole, which Islam still follows. Indeed, many things which people consider "Muslim" actually were changes in Islam which were adaptations of Byzantine culture.

I am not upset about anything. It just seems that our politically correct society often doesn't see bad things for what they are. I wouldn't be surprised at Muslims picking up things from Byzantine culture. I have wondered for some time if Islam is in some sense a Christian heresy. Given the time and place it developed, perhaps so. I am concerned about Christians who are being persecuted by Muslims. There is a huge difference in engaging in debate at CUA, and living under a repressive Islamic regime. Actually, I would hope to spend my remaining years on neither, but I would find the Islamic regime to be somewhat worse

Henry,

Last time I checked, Islam was about 650 years younger that Christianity.

Byzantine in Tennessee,

In many respects Islam is a Christian heresy. Go here: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Rhodes/3543/mohamet.htm and read "The Great and Enduring Heresy of Mohammed" by Hilaire Belloc.

Logos Teen

Well, I put the years shorter, because I was discussing the full development of the seed Christ started, known as Christianity, which takes a couple centuries for it to get "off the ground" and leave sufficient records of itself. Islam did not have the same problems, because Islam developmed at a time were records were being preserved much better, and no one really came along after to destroy them.

As for Islam being a Christian _heresy_, one can go many ways with this. I would say it might have started with some Christian theological views influencing it, but it clearly became its own religious entity and not just a "sect."

Belloc definitely has a way with words. I agree that Islam is a heresy that came from without, rather than from within Christianity. But the elements of Catholicism are there, just as Belloc said. If I remember correctly - and it has been more than a few years since I studied any of this - the East was rife with anti-trinitarian heresies that might/probably did influence Mohammed. I have been saying for years that Christianity will have to fight Islam again for its very survival. The politically correct have always told me I am either crazy or hopelessly anachronistic. This is an instance where I wouldn't mind being proven wrong. But I think it will happen.

It is because there are people on both sides which say, "Look at them look at how evil they are. We must fight them, exterminate them," that they find reasons to kill each other. The Muslim "terrorist" says "we must fight, because they are evil, and are bent on destroying the world," in the same way we see those who oppose them and say we must fight Islam because "it is evil and bent on destroying the world."

To see the other as a foe, is not, however, the way of Christ, the way of the Church. Love your enemies, do good to those who persecute you. Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth. Not blessed are the warmongers, for they shall make peace.

And before you get on and tell me about persecution by Islam for Christians, don't forget all the persecutions, which continue to this day, Christian against Christian. If this is the way we show our love, what do you expect from non-Christians?

I am all for love and tolerance between religions. I also do not advocate forced conversions. Yes, we should be like the early Christians who are noticed because of their love for one another. But what happens if you are threatened with takeover or destruction from without and have to fight for survival? I am not advocating attacking Muslims. But I do expect a political resurgence of that religion, and think it may come to another fight for Christian survival. Oh we are not there yet, but Belloc expected it. I do too.