www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology How Melkites Distribute the Eucharist

should be http://www.mliles.com/melkite/qurban.shtml

Many years,

Neil

In which sense it would be asthetic?

Well, I've been an altar server and I've never bought into the whole germ phobia thing.

Sorry if this offends anyone - but the evidence from the Greek College, dating from shortly after World War I, illustrates the use of the Spoon. I was unable to get a straight answer on this question (you would not believe some of the less than straight answers I've been given), so I dug around myself, and the preponderance of evidence only traces the current Melkite/Greek practice back as far as the nineteen-thirties.

The "reason" given for this practice is claimed to be health. But sticking one's fingers into someone's mouth is not my idea of hygiene. I have known a fair number of priests who were bitten by children to the point of drawing blood.

Fr. Serge

Would be possible to a Melkite priest give the communion in the spoon? Why with all renewal the Melkite Church passed it didn't recovered that? Can they be equal to the Orthodox like that?

As far as I know, nothing prevents a Melkite priest from using the spoon. In fact, the spoon is present with the Chalice in our parish, and the priest uses it to administer the Eucharist to small children who cannot ingest solids, or to adult communicants who cannot tolerate wheat gluten.

On the list of things needed to restore authenticity to the Byzantine rite as celebrated by the Melkites, I would say returning to the spoon ranks probably tenth or twelfth on my list. But then, look at all the things the Orthodox would have to do to restore the fullness of the rite, themselves.

Stuart,

This may be better for another thread, but what would (say) 1-5 be for the Melkites in your opinion? How about the Orthodox?

Markos

For the Melkites:

1. Restoring the suppressed or omitted portions of the Divine Liturgy.
2. Full restoration of the chant tradition in English (e.g., eight tones for Trisagion, Prokimenon, Theotokion, Lord's Prayer, etc.)
3. Minor reforms of iconography (e.g., cult of St. Joseph and the Holy Family)
4. A somewhat more formal approach to teaching the liturgy (especially as Byzantine Daily Worship is out of print). If I did not already know the liturgy from the Slavic tradition, I would have a hard time figuring out what was happening, particularly in festal liturgies. But by no means do I advocate a single, uniform pew book.
5. Removal of pews where they still remain.

As for the Orthodox, there are lots of things that need addressing.

1. Return to canonical chant, and the suppression of musical instruments such as the electric organ (mainly a Greek failing)
2. Revival of congregational singing (many jurisdictions)
3. Elimination of pews
4. Restoration of authentic iconography
5. Suppression of stained glass and other non-canonical forms of church decoration.
6. More universal celebration of the liturgy of the hours
7. Promotion of vernacular liturgy in those jurisdictions that have been resisting it so far.
8. Promotion of (more) frequent communion.

Stuart,
I'm curious about #2 on your list. What do you mean by this? Do you mean suppression of all chant in Greek and Arabic among English-speaking Melkites? Or do you mean the restoration of authentic Byzantine chant in English along the lines of the work of Holy Transfiguration and St. Anthony's monasteries?

Which Orthodox are you taking into account when you wrote these lines?!
Thank you!

1. The GOA, mainly.
2. The GOA, ROCOR, and parts of OCA and AOC
3. GOA, ACROD, UOCA-EP, and even a few OCA parishes
4. Greeks, Russians, Ukrainians, and lots of others
5. Greeks, mostly. "But my grandfather PAID for that window!"
6. A lot of Greeks, for the most part, some ACROD.
7. Greeks, mainly.
8. Almost everyone but the OCA.

LS,

I think examples of Stuart's criticisms can be found in most Orthodox eparchies in the US.

From what little I've seen of Greece, only #2, #4 (in some places though this is less so now), and #8 could be considered problems. And possibly #7, but that often becomes a pointless and very loud debate, so I won't go there.

Markos

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"Union with God, not through words and theories, but through experience and illumination, is the goal of our sojourn on earth..."

Fr. Maximos of the Monastety of Simonopetra