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And of the price of beans this has to do. . . what?

Just getting to the first questions I was asked. Not....as.....fast...as....you.
Chad

I am lost....what is your point?

Picking at old scabs is so much fun, and much easier than forgiving one's enemies not seven times but seventy times seven.

Though, as I have noted many times, there is more than enough blame to go around.

Rome was still in Communion with the Eastern Churches at the Baptism of Russia. The Russian emissaries visited Rome and Constantinople and adopted the Byzantine-rite. Rome was at this time (and is in this Easterners mind) still part of the Orthodox Church.

Also the seat of the Church in Rus' was Kiev at the time.


The Pope have apologized for the sins of the past committed against the Orthodox Church....but I guess that doesn't matter. Has the Russian Orthodox Church apologized for assisting in the destruction of the Greek Catholic Church in the Ukraine?

I think Stuartk is right,

Note:
According to scholars and historians, it wasn't Russia's baptism, it was Rus.
And, it took place in Kiev [Kyiv] - the ancient and present day capital city of Ukraine.

Stuart,

Seriously, the "old scabs" are still there because the old scars haven't healed, and they haven't healed because--until recently--we've done little to help heal them.

Even now, I think it's important to hear each other out and not be critical when evidence of those wounds appears. I had never heard of some of the things Chad was referring to, and I'm sure there's another side to those stories, too. However, let's address those issues with charity and leave out the remarks. Seventy times seven works both ways.


Peace,
Deacon Richard

"Well, here we are at last!" said Gandalf. "Here the Elven-way from Hollin ended. Holly was the token of the people of that land, and they planted it here to mark the end of their domain; for the West-door was made chiefly for their use in their traffic with the Lords of Moria. Those were happier days, when there was still close friendship at times between folk of different races, even between Dwarves and Elves".

"It was not the fault of the Dwarves that the friendship waned", said Gimli.

"I have not heard that it was the fault of the Elves", said Legolas.

"I have heard both", said Gandalf; "and I will not give judgment now. But I beg you two, Legolas and Gimli, at least to be friends, and to help me. The doors are shut and hidden, and the sooner we find them, the better. Night is at hand".

Lord of the Rings, Book II Chapter 4, "A Journey in the Dark"

All I have put forth is from Orthodox sources. I can only put forth the things that have been handed down to me. Anyways it is like Saul Alinski's "Rules for Radicals" you want me to react in some other fashion other than just continue to stand for what I beleve. I beleve what I do and likewise for you. I do understand the several Catholic positions on thiss subject. Dont expect me to take the position of a screen name over my Bishop. I would not do that to you.

Everyone goes on and on about "not another union thread" but lets use this to really get to understand what each others position is and leave it at that. I know I have learned something about coredemtrix that I did not know. Chad

I want you to be objective in your reading of history, and also to put aside the sins of the past committed by both sides. Also, not every Orthodox source is so hung up on the events of 1054, 1204 or 1618.

For my part, I can certainly accept this statement. However, there are many among the rank and file of both Churches whose faith is tied to the notion that their own Church is impeccable.

This does not mean they think there are no sins committed within their ranks (and even at higher levels), but that the Church as a body would not and could not engage in or condone acts that were sinful. The One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church is completely above such things, simply by virtue of her being the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.

This necessarily means that in any dispute in which the only true Church found herself, there was never and could never be any question about who was in the right.

Most importantly, though, for many people on both sides, were they to be persuaded otherwise, it would simply mean losing their faith altogether. Many atheists are keenly aware of the sins of the Church, and that is why they are atheists.

The only solution I can offer here is that of cooperation. It is only by coming together and working together that these walls can be breached, as Christian souls come to recognize in each other the same Christ they have already come to know.


Peace,
Deacon Richard

I forget who it was who said everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but nobody is entitled to his own facts. Facts can be determined with some degree of confidence; its the unwillingness of certain people to accept the facts because they conflict with their own elaborately erected self-image that causes problems.

What if that "elaborately erected self-image" (I think "world-view" is a more accurate term here than "self-image) is the only way they can understand the faith?

Pope John Paul II instructed the Eastern Catholics to recover and restore the fullness of their authentic Tradition, even if it meant giving up a number of cherished and time-honored customs. Certainly, many of these were critical to the elaborately erected self-image (or worldview, if you please) of the Eastern Catholics. Pope John Paul II was telling us that our devotion to truth takes precedence over parochial badges of identity. We have had to do it (I wish the Latins would also do it), and, inevitably, the Orthodox are going to have to do it, because Christianity is a faith founded on truth, not wishful thinking. It may be hard, but it is necessary.

I will say that in the Orthodox world Mt. Athos plays a very big part in shaping the mindset of the people. When you can get Mt. Athos on board then you will really be getting somewhere. In the Orthodox world the monastics really guide the church.This letter should help. Chad



http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/ecumenism/athos_popevisit2006.aspx