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OOOPS!

I am sorry, I tried editing the thumbs up but it didn't work: the 'thumbs up' was supposed to be a 'thumbs down' for what is happening in Greece, and how it affects our dear friends that are not Orthodox, like Francisco.

Prayers for the people of Greece. The body of Christ hasn't been scarred enough by scandals, it seems. About the time one scandal dies down, another breaks out elsewhere.

Byzantyn
The scandals have always been there, now they are being exposed by the secular media to destroy the Church, and maliciously and perniciously too.
Not to condone scandal but this is nothing more than an attack on Christians and even Christ himself.
These people are bent to throw off all morality and godly authority and will stop at nothing.
Stephanos I

Father, I beg to differ. These are scandals because the Church has not cleaned it's own house as it should. I know from personal experience how this happened. There was a time when God would raise up saints (St. Catherine of Siena comes to mind) to expose these scandals and inspire the hierarchy to clean house, often beginning with themselves. Since we seem to have no saints willing to stand up to Rome and the bishops, maybe God is using the media to do their job for them? My abuser was the founder and superior of a diocescan group of brothers. From the very beginning of the community in the late 1960's, until it was finally disbanded by the Archibishop of Indianapolis a little over a year ago, this superior was reported over and over again to the diocescan bishop for his sexually abusive behavior, yet he was allowed to move from diocese to diocese over 6 times! When I told the bishop of Davenport he promised that he would do something. Yet the same bishop gave a good report to a bishop in Illinois that allowed the man to move to a diocese there and remain in good standing in the Church! And the only reason the community was finally disbanded was when someone filed a lawsuit. Think of all the lives that might not have been ruined had the very first bishop had disbanded them? I know of at least a dozen people who's lives would have been better, including myself. I just wish there had been someone from the media exposing this jerk before he abused me! I also hope and pray that the media will continue to expose these scandals and force the hierarchy (from the Pope on down!) to correct what is wrong. Don

I cannot understand your feelings Don I've never had to deal with abuse of the kind you suffered, and perhaps there is some wisdom in your words. I disagree that the hierachy as a whole is to blame. The Church is enormous, the Pope and the Curia cannot really be expected to know what is going on in the Particular Churches worldwide--and it appears some Bishops simply dont wish for them to know either. So the Media bringing to light ills that the Holy See might indeed be interested in curing might well be a help of sorts.

Still, one must remember how the Reformation began. There are two types of protestors those that are like Luther and those that are like Loyola. The former make a lot of noise, write a lot of propanganda, and decry the immorality they see thus creating schism and further dissolusionment with religion. A plain example of this is that by the end of the 16th century most of Scandanavia was already merely nominally Lutheran and the curates of the Geneva academy complained 'the school has gone cold'. As for the latter, well they see wrongs yes but they dont set out to fix in others what they see until what wrongs they see in others are first fixed in themselves. They achieve self-perfection and through doing so, by God's grace, inspire others to do so. These men and women like St Teresa of Avila and St John of the Cross inspire reform simply because of their sanctity and because they live loving God reform takes place around them spontaneously.

Vatican II reminded the world that the Bishop is the foundation and centre of unity for His own particular portion of the mystical body of Christ. If the Bishops are not doing that then the Vatican can, on paper, intervene. However, if the majority of a Bishops Conference are unwilling to listen to your repeated guideliness and simply block any efforts to reform then there's not much the Holy See can do. Whatever powers Rome has in theory the fact is it has never been able to enforce these powers without an army of saints behind it. Without monks in the 11th century, Friars in the 13th, the new orders of the 16th the Papacy is effectively an island in the sea. Unless they know whats going on outside of the Vatican city and unless they have saintly servants in those places working to make their vision a reality, there's not much they can do.

These scandals are not a time for us to look at Rome and say what is she doing. Thats what Erasmus did and it didnt help either him or the Church. These scandals are a time for us to look at ourselves and say what are we doing to put into practice what Rome preaches just like the Catholic Reformation saints did.

Once again I am sorry for what happened to you Don and I stress my comments are not made at you but to all. I sincerely pray that St Charles Borromeo, patron of Bishops, begins to bring men to the episcopate who are truly worthy of that mantle.

God Bless

Don,
I dont see what that has to do with my statement that there have always been scandals in the Church. Right from Judas as a thief, St Peter as a betrayer and denying Jesus, right on down to the present, there have always been scandals. It is nothing new.
Stephanos I

And there have always been scandals in society.
When will these be delt with?

Fr. Stephanos, BLESS! I agree completely. Look at the first 12 bishops/priests---all of them abandoned Our Lord when He needed them most. One denied Him three times...another sold Him for money...and only St. John returned later and came to the foot of the cross (and he was just a young man...a boy really). This is not to excuse REAL abuse or the horror of such things, but merely to understand that human nature is fallen and we are all sinner and as Scripture says, "All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God!" I'm personally tired of hearing about the 4 or 5% of 'bad priests'---I want to hear stories about the 94-95% who are struggling with much success to live their consecration well. I personally need to be UPlifted and supported in my vocation...and am tired of hearing about scandals. As a priest, I know only too well what sinners we all are...and how even the most 'holy' have fallen. I want to hear the Good News! This prayer from St. Claude is a favorite of mine for this reason:

Saint Claude De La Colombiere:
An Act of Hope and Confidence in God

My God, I believe most firmly that Thou watchest over all who hope in Thee, and that we can want for nothing when we rely upon Thee in all things; therefore I am resolved for the future to have no anxieties, and to cast all my cares upon Thee.

People may deprive me of worldly goods and of honors; sickness may take from me my strength and the means of serving Thee; I may even lose Thy grace by sin; but my trust shall never leave me. I will preserve it to the last moment of my life, and the powers of hell shall seek in vain to wrestle it from me.

Let others seek happiness in their wealth, in their talents; let them trust to the purity of their lives, the severity of their mortifications, to the number of their good works, the fervor of their prayers; as for me, O my God, in my very confidence lies all my hope. "For Thou, O Lord, singularly has settled me in hope." This confidence can never be in vain. "No one has hoped in the Lord and has been confounded."

I am assured, therefore, of my eternal happiness, for I firmly hope for it, and all my hope is in Thee. "In Thee, O Lord, I have hoped; let me never be confounded."

I know, alas! I know but too well that I am frail and changable; I know the power of temptation against the strongest virtue. I have seen stars fall from heaven, and pillars of firmament totter; but these things alarm me not. While I hope in Thee I am sheltered from all misfortune, and I am sure that my trust shall endure, for I rely upon Thee to sustain this unfailing hope.

Finally, I know that my confidence cannot exceed Thy bounty, and that I shall never receive less than I have hoped for from Thee. Therefore I hope that Thou wilt sustain me against my evil inclinations; that Thou wilt protect me against the most furious assults of the evil one, and that Thou wilt cause my weakness to triumph over my most powerful enemies. I hope that Thou wilt never cease to love me, and that I shall love Thee unceasingly. "In Thee, O Lord, have I hoped; let me never be confounded."

In His great mercy,
+Fr. Gregory

It has everything to do with your statement. The Church has done nothing to correct these scandals until forced to by the secular media and the courts. Even with that, many bishops still drag their feet on reporting and prevention. Even the Pope and the Vatican have been remiss in addressing these issues. One of the Pope's handpicked bishops and personal friend in Poland was removed from office for seducing seminarians, but only when it hit the media. Before his removal, the rector of the seminary wouldn't allow the bishop the bishop be be with a seminarian alone because he knew what was going on. The founder of the Legionnaires of Christ has numerous credible accusations of sexual abuse going back to the 1960's and for years the Vatican refused to even investigate. It is only in the past 6 months, after a major book was published detailing the allegations in great detail, that the man was removed from office and an investigation half-heartedly begun. A Dominican priest who was active in working with people who have been sexually abused by clergy was forced to resign from being a military chaplain, only months from his retirement, because he spoke out against the US bishops and the Vatican's lask of response dealing with sexual abuse by clergy. What proof do you have that the media is doing this to destroy the Church? By sweeping this stuff under the carpet the Church is doing a very good job of that itself. It should have nothing to hide and should be grateful if anyone can expose hidden crimes such as these. Secrecy is what has caused these crimes to fester and do the damage they've done. Do you know how many people have been alienated from the Church by the way the hierarchy, from the Pope on down, has handled this crisis? There are thousands in the USA alone! I have been a lucky one, the diocese where my abuse occured is paying for my therapy and trying to get the ex-brother responsible to assume his share of the cost as well. But many abused folks didn't get that much. In many cases the diocesan officials even refused to talk to the people involved until it ended up in court. And then their response was anything but Christian. The more public attention these scandals get, the better off the Church will be in the long run.

Growing problems at the Orthodox Patriarchate of Jerusalem. From the Macedonian Press Agency (http://www.mpa.gr/article.html?doc_id=514962)


A first degree court in Israel acepts the appeal of an Arab Orthodox Christian, member of the Parish Council of an Orthodox Church in Galilea, againts the recognision of Irineos as Patriach. According to the court the election process was ilegal and patriarch wan the elections using ilegal means and ask locum tenens metropolitan Kornelios of Petra to celebrate new elections.A Palestinian Court near Bethleem considers not guilty the Orthodox Palestinian that, according to Patriarch Irineos, was paid by metropolitan Timotheos of Vostra to kill him.


ΔΕΚΤΗ Η ΠΡΟΣΦΥΓΗ ΚΑΤΑ ΤΟΥ ΠΑΤΡΙΑΡΧΗ ΙΕΡΟΣΟΛΥΜΩΝ
Αθήνα, 7 Μαρτίου 2005 (11:27 UTC+2)


Αποδεκτή έκανε πρωτοδικείο του Ισραήλ την προσφυγή Άραβα Ορθόδοξου, επιτρόπου σε εκκλησία στην περιοχή της Γαλιλαίας, κατά της αναγνώρισης του Πατριάρχη Ιεροσολύμων Ειρηναίου.

Όπως αναφέρει η απόφαση του ισραηλινού δικαστηρίου: "Με την παρούσα απόφαση αποφασίζεται ότι η διαδικασία των εκλογών που πραγματοποιήθηκε στο Πατριαρχείο και με την οποία έχει εκλεγεί ο εναγόμενος Μητροπολίτης κ.Ειρηναίος Εμμανουήλ Σκοπελίτης ήταν παράνομη εκλογική διαδικασία. Ο εναγόμενος κέρδισε τις εκλογές με παράνομο τρόπο και δίνεται η εντολή στον εναγόμενο αριθμό 3, που είναι ο τοποτηρητής του Πανάγιου Τάφου, Μητροπολίτης Κορνήλιος, να κάνει νέες εκλογές για την ανάδειξη νέου Πατριάρχη".

Η υπόθεση εκδικάστηκε χωρίς την παρουσία εκπροσώπου του Πατριαρχείου Ιεροσολύμων, το οποίο πάντως έχει το δικαίωμα να ασκήσει έφεση κατά της απόφασης, που δεν είναι τελεσίδικη. Ο νομικός σύμβουλος του Πατριαρχείου, Φραγκίσκος Ραγκούσης, δήλωσε ότι καμία απόφαση δικαστηρίου και μάλιστα πρωτοβάθμιου δεν μπορεί να ακυρώσει την εκλογή του κ.Ειρηναίου.

Στο μεταξύ, αθώος κρίθηκε από δικαστήριο της παλαιστινιακής Αρχής ο Μητροπολίτης Βόστρων, Τιμόθεος, ο οποίος είχε κατηγορηθεί για σχέδιο δολοφονίας του Πατριάρχη Ειρηναίου πριν από τρία χρόνια.

Σύμφωνα με την απόφαση, το άτομο που είχε κατηγορήσει τον κ.Τιμόθεο ότι τον χρημάτισε για να δολοφονήσει τον κ.Ειρηναίο, λειτούργησε με δυσφημιστικά κίνητρα και δεν προκύπτουν στοιχεία ενοχής του Μητροπολίτη Βόστρων.

Dear Don,

I pray that God heal your pain and offer you many blessings and spiritual graces in both your suffering and your recovery.

If I may philosophize. I think that the slow response to all of these horrible incidents in the past 40 years is because, before that, they were a rarity, and often nothing more than slander.

The CHURCH, East and West, has many incidents of the greatest saints in Heaven having been sexually slandered. I just don't think that an older generation, where chastity and religious commitment generally walked hand in hand, could phathom or quite believe this kind of demonic horror had reared its head to such an extent that it even possessed those who were always virtuous, trustworthy, and rightly put on a pedestal: the clergy.

I think that the demon of sexual temptation reared its ugly head in a big way around that time and, unfortunately, every facet of society has not been the same since.

May our Saviour bless you with His peace,
and may His Most Holy Mother keep you in her comfort, her care, and her consolation,
Alice

Thank you Alice!
And add also the fact of the seal of confession, which is not SECRECY.
I have heard many crimes of laity in the confession (should i expose these?)
The question is more complex than people who look at it from a mere humanistic view would like to admit.That is not to excuse these horrible acts. No one is doing that.
Stephanos I

Jerusalem, Jerusalem

From the Macedonian Press Agency

ISRAELI COURT RULES AGAINST IRENAEUS
Athens, 7 March 2005 (13:34 UTC+2)


An Israeli court ruled in favor of a new procedure for the election of the Patriarch of Jerusalem after accepting an appeal made by an Arab Orthodox bishop* and annulled the election of Patriarch Irenaeus as being the outcome of illegal moves. The case was tried without the presence of a representative of the Patriarchate of Jerusalem.

For the time being, the way Patriarch Irenaeus will react remains unknown but an appeal can be made to overturn the specific court ruling.

The Patriarchate's legal adviser in Athens Philippos** Ragousis stated that a final ruling has already been issued by the Israeli Supreme Court settling the issues in question.

Meanwhile, according to a ruling issued by a Palestinian court, the individual who had accused Metropolite Timotheos of Vostron that he had paid him to assassinate Irenaeus had acted on libelous motives and there is no incriminating evidence against the Metropolite of Vostron.

Therefore, Metropolite Timotheos, who had been accused of planning to kill Patriarch Irenaeus three years ago, was acquitted.

* Member of a Parish Council, there is only one arab bishop at the Patriarchate of Jerusalem
** Fragkiskos Rangousis

TUESDAY, 8 MARCH 2005


INDICTMENT AGAINST THE ECONOMIC MANAGER OF THE PATRIARCHATE OF JERUSALEM
Athens, 7 March 2005 (14:48 UTC+2)


An indictment was issued against former economic manager of the Patriarchate of Jerusalem Nikolaos Papadimas. He is accused of misappropriation of Patriarchate funds.

His wife Katerina Papadima is also accused of legalizing revenues from illegal activity.

However, Nikolaos Papadimas and his wife have disappeared lately and have not declared a permanent residence.

From Kathimerini


More scandals in Corith and...Spain (!!!)


From Kathimerini

Priest to face justice in Spain?


A 58-year-old Greek priest alleged to have sexually molested a minor in Barcelona had his appeal against extradition to Spain rejected on Saturday by a Supreme Court rapporteur, in the first high court test of a new European arrest warrant.

A lower court had accepted the extradition request submitted by Spanish authorities after the unnamed cleric was charged with molesting a young girl between 2001 and 2002, when he was giving Greek lessons to children in Barcelona.

According to the court�s ruling, the extradition of the priest for trial in Spain would not violate the Greek Constitution. The ruling was echoed by the Supreme Court rapporteur, who explained that a Greek citizen could be tried by Spanish authorities before being sent back to Greece to serve his sentence. In this particular case, however, the priest would probably face a longer jail sentence in Greece than in Spain, if convicted.

But the cleric has denied any wrongdoing and is insisting on being tried in Greece. He has claimed that the charges have been brought against him by Spanish Catholics seeking to persecute him because of his religious beliefs*.

Greece passed a law last summer to ratify the European arrest warrant.


* As you can see I am not the only Spanish Catholic "seeking to persecute" Orthodox clergy for thier "religious beliefs".


Bishop �took alms cash�


As Archbishop Christodoulos yesterday detected a �silver lining� in the cloud of scandal hanging over the Church of Greece, a report said that a senior bishop has been indicted on charges of embezzling over 300,000 euros from Church funds and charities.

According to the Sunday Apoyevmatini newspaper, the Nafplion Council of Appeals Court Judges has indicted Panteleimon, Bishop of Corinth, to stand trial for allegedly siphoning the missing cash into bank accounts in his name and destroying the Bishopric�s financial records to cover his tracks. Another five Corinth priests and the bishop�s female factotum were also indicted.

The 86-year-old bishop allegedly appropriated Church funds between 1993 and 2000, including cash from a girls� orphanage and an old-age home. Panteleimon is also accused of having falsely claimed that the Bishopric�s financial records were destroyed during the severe floods that afflicted Corinth in 1997. Instead, the indictment said, he ordered an associate to dispose of the potentially incriminating documents in dumpsters on a highway outside Corinth.

Meanwhile, Archbishop Christodoulos claimed the ongoing corruption and sex scandals bedeviling the Church of Greece had their positive side. �Every cloud has a silver lining,� he told an Athens congregation yesterday. �[This crisis] has forced us to examine ourselves and our close associates, and to take action... It affects us, even though we are not immediately involved.�

The scandal, linked with revelations of trial fixing in the judiciary, has forced the Church to dismiss one bishop and investigate several more. Yesterday, outgoing President Costis Stephanopoulos called for �moral sanctions� against corrupt officials in addition to legal penalties. �They should be declared worthless and vile (in court),� he said.

I agree with Fr. Gregory, let us hear good!

I feel bad and pray that you are healed from the experience of abuse. But you know what is worse? It is being a child of a Protestant minister and being abused by your own parent. YES! There is as much if not more abuse in the Protestant Churches as the Catholic or Orthodox, but it is not reported or if it is there is no heirachel authority to keep records. Yes it is wrong either way.

Look at the blessings on this forum alone. You have two awesome priests that are talking with you. What a blessing! They desire to reaffirm you, to encourage you, and say if you allow God he will set you free and make you a new creation.

Another part of the spiritual dynamic is the other person may not be able to completely repent of the suffering he caused because he has not been forgiven.

Sister Betsy said in a talk at the University of Steubenville...

If you have wronged someone, you go and ask forgiveness.

If someone has wronged you, you go and ask forgiveness.

And if there is doubt as to whether you have wronged or someone wronged you, you go and ask forgiveness.

I am not saying that you should go and ask forgiveness of this person necessarily, I am just trying to show the implications of forgiveness. Those who were wronged, often times have to take the first step simply because they have the spiritual maturity to do so.

As long as unforgiveness is held in our hearts we effect the salvation of the other person, just like if we had wronged them, because they will never be set free, if we do not forgive.

Don't know if my ramblings have made any sence, but I have been there and done that.

Pani Rose

Don in Kansas.

You are creature of God in His image. You are a brother of Christ and a Son and Heir. You are not "no one". I think that your comments here are brave. There is no suggestion of malice to the Church. And the suffering that you manifest is the very essence that will heal the Church.