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Joined: May 2009
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I'm curious to learn what posters have to say about the proposal that a mosque be constructed at or near Ground Zero.
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Za myr z'wysot ... Member
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From what I've heard, the imam in charge of the project has stated publicly that he supports Hamas and similar groups that the US Government recognizes as terrorist--so much for his claims to be a peace-loving Muslim who "only wants to do this as a way of showing the victory of peace," or something like that.
I heard a spokeswoman for the group on TV last week, and it was clear she had American PC rhetoric down pat. (It seems to be working--many who would otherwise have opposed this are now strongly supporting it.)
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I think that it is a bad and insensitive idea...
Sure, on the outside it isn't, as it can be a symbol of peace between religions, etc., but in reality, many mosques are hotbeds and recruit centers of militant jihad, and everyone knows that.
Build it somewhere else.
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A mosque on the site of Ground Zero in New York? Sure - as soon as Christians are made welcome to build churches (at our own expense) and hold divine services in Saudi Arabia.
Fr. Serge
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Here is a link from today's Fox News on a debate about an ad against the mega mosque which will be going onto NYC buses next week. I don't agree with the proponent of banning the ad, who happens to be the daughter of members of my church. click here [ beforeitsnews.com]
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In general, my NYC friends -- including many who were just blocks away from the WTC on 9/11 -- are not terribly upset by the proposed mosque and think the national media is making too big a deal of it.
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Had the disastrous attack of 9/11 only affected New York City (and I'm a native New Yorker myself), I might agree that New Yorkers should decide the issue. To our great grief, however, the attack occurred in other places at the same time, which makes the matter one of legitimate national interest.
Fr. Serge
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It would be one thing if the members of this mosque were labeled as terrorists, but they are not. The Imam, is currently making and has previously made trip to Muslim countries on behalf of the US State Dept.
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I wonder, and why name it “Cordoba House”? The Caliphate of Cordoba was an allegedly golden age in Spain, when people of many religions lived prosperously and harmoniously together, yet one where Jews and Christians were in 'dhimmitude'
(dhimmitude means: Subordinate status of Christians and Jews under traditional Muslim rule -- couldn't ride a horse, couldnt repair places of worship, etc. )
In the name of liberal thought and democracy, some Americans are being very shortsighted and naive. The name of this house is utterly offensive and is, imho, a great big warning sign. I have no problem with mosques, (though I am suspicious of their dual nature as evidenced in the recruiting aspect of them in the London terror strikes), but there is plenty of land in NYC where they could build one. INFACT, they already had a beautiful one in the upper 90's on the East Side...why are they moving to downtown, which is less accessible than the upper East Side?!? Also, from what I read, the have a very small fraction of what this 'mega mosque' is going to cost--prompting suspicion that Saudi Arabia is probably giving them the rest of the money.
So, as Father Serge says: Allow churches in Saudi Arabia in return!!!!
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John Member
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The question is a difficult one. Our Constitutional Freedom of Religion would guarantee all peoples the freedom to worship as they choose, building their own houses of worship as they please (subject to reasonable regulations on location and building codes, etc.). But having the right to do something does not mean it is the right thing to do. In the 1980s some Carmelite nuns set up shop at Auschwitz. Their intentions were honorable since many Christians were murdered there together with Jews. But the Jews took offense at them setting up shop at what has become a major memorial for them. Pope John Paul II eventually acknowledged their right to be there but asked them to move as it was not the right thing to do. [William McGurran had a good article on this recently in the WSJ: WTC Mosque, Meet the Auschwitz Nuns [ online.wsj.com]]. I'd say on that basis alone they should move the location of the mosque a few blocks away from ground zero. But there is another issue that the West needs to wrestle with. Islam is not just a religion but it is also a political movement. While most Moslems are peaceful people the religion of Islam has a goal of establishing a worldwide caliphate in which Christians, Jews and all non-Muslims are, at best, second class and pay taxes to them for permission to live. Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf's group to raise $100 million to build the Ground Zero Mosque is called the Cordova Iniative (a registered charity in NY). The title was purposefully chosen as a symbolic remembrance of when Islamic armies took Spain and use the Cathedral in Cordoba as its prize. Imam Faisal Abdul Rauf, president of the Cordoba Initiative, called for Islamic dawa and sharia law to replace the U.S. Constitution. When in Islamic countries he speaks openly of "Ground Zero, the site of the rebirth of Islam’s holy war in the West." In the Islamic countries the Ground Zero Mosque is seen as a symbol of victory, a symbol of Islam replacing the decadent Twin Towers just like the taking of the Cordoba Cathedral was a symbol of victory of Islam over Christian Spain. In America, when speaking English, however, he very much moderates his words. [Tony Vega has an article on this in the Washington Examiner: The Cordoba Initiative mosque near Ground Zero [ examiner.com]]. There are now a number of successes of pushing Sharia in the U.S. In NJ just recently a judge dismissed a charge against a man for raping his wife (since under Sharia she is his property and he can do whatever he wants with her). In Detroit, Evangelical Christians who gathered across the street from a mosque to witness Christ and distribute literature were arrested and were told not to do so again (again they had appealed to Sharia). And just north of the border in Canada a mother who was convicted of murdering her daughter was given no jail time because she had a right to kill her daughter under Sharia. That the State Department is paying Imam Faisal Abdul Rauf to go fundraising in the Islamic world to establish a Ground Zero center for the waging of a jihad to conquer America for Islam is unacceptable.
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I ain't keen on the proposal, either. In fact, the little icon up in the left-hand corner of this post indicates everything I think about Islam.
Spasi nas, Hospody.
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Dear John, Thanks for expanding so brilliantly on the meaning of the title 'Cordoba' to Islam. I urge everyone to read John's absolutely brilliant post. Ignorance is not bliss. The question is a difficult one. Our Constitutional Freedom of Religion would guarantee all peoples the freedom to worship as they choose, building their own houses of worship as they please (subject to reasonable regulations on location and building codes, etc.).
But having the right to do something does not mean it is the right thing to do. In the 1980s some Carmelite nuns set up shop at Auschwitz. Their intentions were honorable since many Christians were murdered there together with Jews. But the Jews took offense at them setting up shop at what has become a major memorial for them. Pope John Paul II eventually acknowledged their right to be there but asked them to move as it was not the right thing to do. [William McGurran had a good article on this recently in the WSJ: WTC Mosque, Meet the Auschwitz Nuns]. I'd say on that basis alone they should move the location of the mosque a few blocks away from ground zero.
But there is another issue that the West needs to wrestle with. Islam is not just a religion but it is also a political movement. While most Moslems are peaceful people the religion of Islam has a goal of establishing a worldwide caliphate in which Christians, Jews and all non-Muslims are, at best, second class and pay taxes to them for permission to live.
Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf's group to raise $100 million to build the Ground Zero Mosque is called the Cordova Iniative (a registered charity in NY). The title was purposefully chosen as a symbolic remembrance of when Islamic armies took Spain and use the Cathedral in Cordoba as its prize. Imam Faisal Abdul Rauf, president of the Cordoba Initiative, called for Islamic dawa and sharia law to replace the U.S. Constitution. When in Islamic countries he speaks openly of "Ground Zero, the site of the rebirth of Islam’s holy war in the West." In the Islamic countries the Ground Zero Mosque is seen as a symbol of victory, a symbol of Islam replacing the decadent Twin Towers just like the taking of the Cordoba Cathedral was a symbol of victory of Islam over Christian Spain. In America, when speaking English, however, he very much moderates his words. [Tony Vega has an article on this in the Washington Examiner: The Cordoba Initiative mosque near Ground Zero].
There are now a number of successes of pushing Sharia in the U.S. In NJ just recently a judge dismissed a charge against a man for raping his wife (since under Sharia she is his property and he can do whatever he wants with her). In Detroit, Evangelical Christians who gathered across the street from a mosque to witness Christ and distribute literature were arrested and were told not to do so again (again they had appealed to Sharia). And just north of the border in Canada a mother who was convicted of murdering her daughter was given no jail time because she had a right to kill her daughter under Sharia.
That the State Department is paying Imam Faisal Abdul Rauf to go fundraising in the Islamic world to establish a Ground Zero center for the waging of a jihad to conquer America for Islam is unacceptable. --Alice
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There are now a number of successes of pushing Sharia in the U.S. In NJ just recently a judge dismissed a charge against a man for raping his wife (since under Sharia she is his property and he can do whatever he wants with her). In Detroit, Evangelical Christians who gathered across the street from a mosque to witness Christ and distribute literature were arrested and were told not to do so again (again they had appealed to Sharia). JOHN: Under what pretexts are these judges doing this? Our laws don't support these breaches of justice. Sharia should have absolutely no standing in our courts.  BOB
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In the Islamic countries the Ground Zero Mosque is seen as a symbol of victory, a symbol of Islam replacing the decadent Twin Towers just like the taking of the Cordoba Cathedral was a symbol of victory of Islam over Christian Spain. John is very right about this, and this is where Americans,(motivated by the nobility of Western democratic values) are being foolish and naive. In the Middle East, unlike America, to 'triumph' is a very important thing.
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