www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Going to Clubs? What would Jesus do (WWJD)

Hello all,

I'm not sure how to deal with the subject of going to clubs. Many of my friends like going to clubs including the ones who are faithful Church goers. I have been going to clubs for the past 3 years and I don't enjoy them anymore. It's very hard to talk in the club, plus I don't feel good after leaving the club. So here is my question, what would Jesus do? If I ask Jesus, is it ok to go to clubs or no, what would his answer be? I just don't see the advantage or the entertainment of going to club. The thing is that most of my friends and cousins hang out in the club on the weekend and if I don't go to clubs then I'm going to isolate my self from my friends and cousins? any suggestions?

Thank you

Jesus hung with sinners, but I doubt he was looking for a pickup.

Reading your post, I sense that you have already know the answer. It's possible that some of your friends feels the same way you do; if not, maybe isolating yourself from them may be good for you.

I don't think that there is any single, right, answer to your post, as I'd suggest that the answers given above presuppose.

Your post suggests that you believe going to clubs may be an inherently evil thing - which it is not - and categorizing it as such might suggest that scrupulosity is a concern of yours. Like many other things that one does in life, much depends on the specifics.

The type of club, one's reasons for visiting it, the interactions which one has there, the after-effects or consequences of attendance - all of these are considerations which one must take into account in assessing how one should answer his or her own query on the matter. Neither entertainment nor recreation is inherently wrong.

God does not demand of each of us that we lead a spartan existence for salvation, that we all be monastic or hermitic in our approach to everyday life. As there is joy in worship, there is also joy in societal interaction. If you are personally discomfitted by clubbing, you need to ask yourself why and if there are steps you can take that might assuage that discomfiture - what contributes to it?

Is your choice of club? your choice of companions? your choice as to how you participate there? your choice as to the frequency with which you attend? your choice as to what other activities, which you find enjoyable and relaxing, are neglected as a result?

Each is something over which you have a measure of control, which you can exercise, and which may bring you to a better understanding of how to enjoy yourself without feeling that you need to isolate yourself from friends or family, retreating into an environment of self-absorption that can be both psychologically and spiritually unrewarding, as well as dangerous. As one who is not himself (and never was) 'a party animal' and would generally rather curl up with a book, watch a good movie, or converse quietly in the living room over a drink or a cup of tea, I can understand that a club or concert atmosphere - even one that is wholesome, devoid of loud music that renders real social interaction impossible - isn't always conducive to relaxation. Still, I think that there are those who can find enjoyment there, even if only on a very occasional basis - to unwind and blow off steam.

It's a personal choice about which one should give thought and prayer, but don't put the burden of decision on Jesus. We were given free will for a purpose - to make our own best decisions, consistent with what is spiritually best for us and - believe it or not - corporeally best, keeping in mind that what is truly corporeally best should also satisfy our spiritual needs.

Many years,

Neil

Completely aside from what Jesus would do, the question here is: is going "clubbing" or on "pub crawls" working for YOU? Methinks it's not...it probably doesn't "work" for anubody except the people who own and work at these establishments...I think they're kinda exploitative joints, making $$ off peoples' loneliness and vulnerability...maybe...

I would say it depends.

I think we can look to St. Paul for an answer on this one.

1 Corinthians 6:12

“All things are lawful for me, but not all things are helpful. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be enslaved by anything."

also

Romans 14:2

"One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him."

In other words. Can a Christian attend a club and still remain a Christian? Absolutely. That does not mean that we should all run out and go clubbing tonight. Some people who are strong in the faith and do not suffer from numerous temptations that one will undoubtedly bump into at a night club will be perfectly fine. Others will really be hurt spiritually because of one or another thing.

I guess what I am trying to say is with all due respect to the people of this forum, you must make that decision with the help of a kindhearted, loving and RATIONAL spiritual father or confessor. Asking such a question in this type of setting will not really give you the correct answer.

You will always find some guy who says they go clubbing and do 100 Jesus Prayers every morning. And you will find a guy who says that all clubs are of the devil. Both answers are unsatisfactory. Keep away from extremes. Go to your priest.

On a side note, I saw Willie Nelson play the House of Blues in Boston MA last Friday and my wife and I had a blast.

Slava Isusu Christu!

Our purpose on this planet is to worship the Trinity. In my Rusyn tradition all life is centered on divine worship in the Temple and the domestic church.

You know your Chaldean tradition and the cultural realities that form your life or should form it. A club, pub or bar that encourages sin or occasions of sin should be avoided. Here in Ave Maria, FL we have a pub which is frequented by Catholic and non-Catholic laity, Catholic clergy and religious and others and is a safe place to have a drink, a cigar (or not) and relax. It is a positive place where moral values are supported and drunkenness is not allowed. It is a great place for Catholics here. But, in many cities and towns there are many places that are not edifying. Avoid them and refuse to attend them. Find lounges and pubs that are respectable and conservative; drink moderately and remember you represent the Church in all your actions. If your friends lead you into occasions of sin, get new friends who respect the teachings of the Church and respect themselves. God will give you new friends or perhaps through your witness convert old friends. It is important to be around spiritually edifying people so as you witness to those in sin you will have the strength to avoid vice.

Many Catholics or other Christians believe that since Jesus hung around open sinners he would want his followers to tolerate public sin and try to be private saints around worldly people, tolerating sin. The unfortunate reality in the modern club scene is it leads people to extreme drunkenness, drug use, sexual experimentation, unwholesome associations, profane speech and thought, and actions which lead good Catholics to progressive deterioration of their faith, values and morals.

Jesus called sinners to repentance and as Catholics we should offer a social witness which stands for the values of Christ. Drinking is allowed in the Catholic tradition not leading to drunkenness; it is permitted within a context of wholesome associations and in an atmosphere that is conducive to decency and high moral standards--while respecting the health and safety of the body.

Go to Liturgy and the Mystery of Repentance often to get the moral courage to say no to occasions of sin and stay strong in your traditions, which ground you in moral excellence.

In Christ,


Robert

A bridge club or something similar is unlikely to be encouraging people to commit sin.

Fr. Serge

Father, Bless.

I think he meant a dance club.

Great idea though. Go to a bridge club or something similar; stay away from the dance clubs. I can directly testify that dance or techno clubs lead to occasions of sin. Clubbing is not a lifestyle conducive to integration within the life of the Spirit.

Robert

I am assuming that you don't mean 'country clubs'!! LOL! (probably one of the safest bastions of conservatism in this country)

The 'clubs' young people go to today, (such as Robert mentioned in the above post) and the ones which I believe our poster is referring to, are probably not the wisest move for a spiritual person...The ethos and culture of sexual sin is very much alive there and is almost the raison d'etre. If I am not mistaken, the discoteque of the 70's was a much spiritually safer place to go than what exists today.

However, there are 'clubs', such as 'nightclubs' (Middle Eastern, Russian, Greek) where 'kefi' (aka: having a fun time) is the ethos and nothing more--good music, a little wine, a little food, a little dancing, etc...and I see nothing sinful in that. (Is there a coincidence that ethnic Orthodox like to have a good time? Maybe because of so many fasting periods?)

So I think that it depends on the club and the type of people that frequent it..(married people? homosexual people? promiscuous single people? intellectual people? in other words, what is its ethos and purpose?)

Dear Aliki,

".(married people? homosexual people? promiscuous single people? intellectual people? in other words, what is its ethos and purpose?)"

I've belonged to several bridge clubs over the years, and none of them had such criteria as those listed above! The ethos and purpose of a bridge club is to enjoy playing bridge.

Fr. Serge

Dear Father Serge,
Bless...

Hehehe...Indeed, a bridge club would be a good club for our poster to go to, however, I don't think he was talking about that type of club!! *wink*

Respectfully,
Alice

Hi,

I don't think there is an exact parallel between our "clubs" and anything in the time and culture in which Our Lord lived His earthly life. "What would Jesus do?" is a hard question to answer in this context (and one I generally don't like, since it implies that a theoretical "Jesuist" speculation is more important than an actual Christian position).

The closest thing I can think of are the dinner parties offered by prominent members of the community. In the Gospels, we find the Lord attending those as a matter of course.

Now, if you just don't like going to clubs, then just don't go. I recommend NOT making a religious dilema out of it.

Shalom,
Memo

There is a exact parallel between "clubs" and first century taverns, which were a combination of eatery, bar, hang-out and brothel. The main difference between a club and a tavern is the latter offered better food at lower prices, and the women were professionals, not eager amateurs.

A bridge-club will sometimes offer coffee or tea, and maybe some light sweets (however, in these cases the bridge club will probably require the players to furnish their own cards). I've never seen or heard of a bridge club that was remotely reminiscent of "a combination of eatery, bar, hang-out and brothel." In fact, I've never even know one that served pizza.

My mother, of blessed memory, belonged to a gourmet cooking club, which naturally had food for the members. I think that they met once a month. Come to think of it, without any formal organization when I lived in Toronto I was part of a group which used to go to Stratford and attend the Shakespeare once or twice a year. Since it's rather a drive from Toronto, we would count heads and make a reservation for dinner before the play - usually at the "Church" restaurant in Stratford. Made a pleasant evening, and no scandal to anyone that I ever noticed (somehow attending one or another of the plays of William Shakespeare does not immediately conjure up images of sin and wickedness). Time and weather permitting, we would often stop briefly in Woodstock to snicker at the life-sized monument to a cow.

Fr. Serge