www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Parishioners and priest defy bishop

Parishioners, priest from closed St. Peter Catholic Church defy bishop, celebrate Mass in new home

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2010/08/parishioners_from_closed_catho.html

So........where did they get the altar stone, and who consecrated it? And if there were 350 people at this Mass, why was their parish church closed (was the church deconsecrated and the parish suppressed, or did something else happen?) And why do they need six chalices and three ciboria for that number of people?

Apologies if those are stupid questions, just what popped into my mind after reading the article.

and who will be the pastor after the present one retires? With that many people involved, surely the Bishop could make some kind of accomodation; apparently other people from other closed churches are also coming to St Peters...just thinking

Going by the photos, they sure don't look very traditional.

Understandable but yes, this doesn't make theological sense and seems another liberal walk-on to the vagante circus. Not hardcore like the one in Rochester, NY (liberal pastor went vagante after the bishop cracked down) but similar.

Without a larger church with bishops and more than one parish it won't last a generation.

The Polish National Catholic Church (century-old American schism; Novus Ordo clone... historically liberal bishops but conservative parishes... these days it's fourth-generation members and priests from Poland who left RC to marry) has actually started a few new parishes in what seem conservative Rust Belt neighbourhoods because of RC parish closings.

I'm not saying it's right, just that it happens.

They don't need one. The requirement for an altar stone hasn't been in place for quite some years. Most parishes I've been in for the past 35 years don't have one--even one left over after renovations.

Usually closings of churches have to do with lack of clergy, high cost of keeping old buildings up, lack of income, a combination of these and other reasons.

Bob

Hi young fogey!
Where's the "Rust Belt"?

Rust Belt: Roughly a Pensylvania-Virginia-Ohio-Michigan bounding box...

The parish is one of some 50 (if I remember correctly) closed in the Latin Diocese of Cleveland since Bishop Lennon was enthroned there (after transfering from an Auxiliary position in Boston). I'm fairly certain that there is an old thread here that discusses it. He drew enormous criticism for the closure decisions that he made - many of which were of the older, inner-city, and often ethnic parishes which inevitably bear the brunt of cutbacks.

A very interesting observation in this piece is that which notes - contrary to the usual reaction - this community did not seek to occupy the closed temple, asserting that it was not about the physical plant but about the community of faithful as being the Church. However else one feels about the decision they have taken, there is much truth to that - as we should all especially well know.

It's a premise too seldom observed in modern times. There was a time, in the memory of at least some of us, when parishes were essentially that - a community that worshipped together, versus a bunch of folk who happened to be in the same building of a Sunday morning and went their separate ways thereafter.

Many years,

Neil

The Steel Belt was a typical descriptor intended to evoke a mental picture of a region's employment base and its contribution to the broader economy. Similar appellatiions were the Coal, Corn, and Cotton Belts, and a myriad of smaller/less commonly cited ones, such as the Copper, Silver, Textile, and Chemical Belts, to name a few of them. As some of these began to founder, through resource depletion or the movement of work outside NA as cost-saving, profit-increasing measures, the names were sometimes denigrated to variations that more aptly described what was left behind; as examples, the Steel Belt became the Rust Belt and the Textile Belt became the Lint Belt.

The Rust Belt is an area roughly that which aramis has described - although I'd be more inclined to describe it as beginning in western NY state, and proceeding through PA, OH, IN, northern IL, and up into parts of MI, MN, and WI. It encompasses those formerly highly industrialized regions where once thriving, now abandoned, factories (and iron mines) were an essential aspect of life. In times prior to the demise of heavy industry as a major economic factor for the region, it was additionally, but less frequently, sometimes termed as the Manufacturing or Factory Belt.

Many years,

Neil

That's really sad. Makes me wonder what happens to them, although with the stories told to me by people who 'rescue' far less important things from dumpsters (altar cloths, tabernacle veils) I can probably imagine.

I've rescued three and missed three.

It seems that in the numerous Roman dioceses in the North-East Rust Belt that have closed numerous ethnic neighborhood churches, have now created new "mega" parishes (w/ 6 to 8 liturgies a weekend) with congregations around 7,000 to 10,000 in their stead. How is that a better situation? How can any Roman Catholic attending a "mega" parish possibily have any sense of parish community and fellowship? Where is the sense of communion and fellowship in a "mega" parish of 7,000-10,000 souls? What is the justification for the creation of these "mega" parishes in these Roman dioceses? What are the priorities, finances or attending to the spiritual welfare of the faithful?

U-C

While teaching CCD in a certain Latin parish many years ago, I chanced to come across 2 altar stones which had been placed in storage after the renovation of the church. I decided to ask permission to dispose of them by burying them in the grave with a very pious and devout aged Mexican-American parishioner;the pastor gave his OK and that's where they are today, buried with her in Calvary Hill Cemetery in Dallas.

U-C,

That's something I'd like to know--although I suspect it's probably better that I dont!

My impression is that we're witnessing an example of the lingering spirit of clericalism, in which the bishops see themselves as having dictatorial powers and whose judgments are never to be questioned. In the past, this attitude was modeled after kings and princes, now it is modeled after corporate CEOs.

Just as many CEOs have closed factories and stores that were deemed "unprofitable"--even when they might be considered "viable"--so, these bishops feel they need to follow suit. I think in most cases where a parish truly isn't viable, the people know it, and can accept the fact that the parish must close.

I have also heard that when a parish closes, only about half the parishioners actually transfer to the "new" parish, with the others moving on to Protestant churches or no church at all.

I especially like the "sidebar" article, entitled Catholic Parish Breakaways Not Uncommon
Interesting observations.


Peace,
Deacon Richard