www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Weird Question

Shlomo Lkhoolkhoon,

As many of you know we Eastern Catholics are chained to our Canonical Territories since no Patriarchate other than the Western one is world wide.

Now the weird question, since the Pope is also the head of the Italo-Albanian Greek Catholic Church, is that Church the only Eastern Catholic Church that is not constrained by the Colonial Office (ie the Congregation on Oriental Churches)? If not what are the ramifications of this? What other questions can others think of concerning this?

Fush BaShlomo Lkhoolkhoon,
Yuhannon

Shawn, my brother,

I believe that the Colonial Office exercises oversight of our Italo-Albanian brethren albeit it 'belonged' to the (former) Western Patriarchate.

Technically, the Pope exercises the same degree of control (directly or through the CO) over all of those Churches sui iuris which are of eparchial (or lesser) status (those which have neither a Patriarch, Major-Archbishop, nor Metropolitan as their primatial hierarch). All such are Byzantine - the Albanians, Byelorusians, Bulgarians, Greeks, Hungarians, Italo-Albanians, Russians, and Ruthenians (outside US).

Many years,

Neil

The 'congo' is rather helpful in many way to the Italian Byzantines who are often a wee bit short of the readies ($$$). The monks at GF mentioned to me a few years ago, that they got the fabric for their sisters (Daughters of St Macrina) to make their vestments (they go for full length fronts). the Exarchate of GF is a part of the Metropolitan province of which the Archdiocese of Rome is the centre of, so they get access to the 'Metropolitan' (The Pope) very easily.

Even as a Roman Catholic, this just rubs me so wrong. It just irritates with no end and not sure why.

May God help me with peace over this. Since it would take something big for that situation to change. Like the union between the Catholic and Orthodox.

Kyrie eleison,

Manuel

Christ is in our midst!! He is and always will be!!

I think it's a carry-over from the mindset that the Latin Church is the norm, that the Eastern Churches are somehow "not as far along" in their development of the Faith, that the Eastern Churches should be "allowed" to exist where they have traditionally been, but should not be "encouraged" to share their gifts (because they have none to offer).

Please forgive me. I've read or heard or inferred all of these abominations of thought and attitude in my lifetime--and they make me ill with the ignorance behind them. They're like cancers; they seem to have a life of their own; and they seem to be perpetuated in the official Catholic Church at mid-level (the seminaries and chanceries). No matter how much the top may say otherwise, there is always some parish priest or chancery official who hasn't gotten the memo about sui juris Churches, about Vatican II and the documents produced there and later concerning the Eastern Churches, their gifts, their spiritual riches, their patrimony that is complimentary to the Western.

There's another area, too. The idea that the Pope must have universal ordinary jurisdiction over all the Churches. The whole set-up is about control--the control necessary to make uoj work.

So, yes, it rubs you the wrong way. And it should.

In Christ,

Bob

Dear Bob,

I had made a comment on another thread, not sure if you saw it, that if that is how Rome feels, then they should stick to their "traditional" territory. Catholic Church of America anyone? lol.

But also, I have an author friend who is very close (for a laymen) to Vatican going ons and he told me the other day that all Catholics are Roman Catholic and Eastern Catholics are just of different rites but still Roman Catholic. I had greatly respect this author and friend but that made me lose some respect for him sadly.

Kyrie eleison,

Manuel

Can you imagine American Clergy running amok, without any restraints from Rome?


How about

"Seventh Day Mormon Pentecostal Episcopal Church"

I was only half joking. ;-)

Kyrie eleison,

Manuel

Manuel:

Christ is in our midst!! He is and always will be!!



Don't lose respect. He just didn't get the memo about these attitudes being out-of-date since Vatican II and atht they are an infinite barrier to any communion with the Eastern Churches.

I have a three-volume set of books, bought by my great grandmother in 1910. The attitudes I outline can be found there. It's amazing how this sort of myopic prejudice, this totally uncharitable mental garbage can still be alive after all this time. ISTM that the last 45 years of ecumenical contacts, mutual prayers, and other exercises ought to be examined a bit more closely. Just what is it ath this is all about? If we all get together and put on masks to make the world think things are on the road to reconciliation and then go back to our own ghettos and bring out the old attitudes and polemics, we are more than hypocrites. We are plain evil.

OTOH, with uoj, America and all lands not surrounding the Mediterranean are the territory of the Latin Church--in that mindset.

Bob

The Simpsons attend the "First Reformed Episcopresbylutheran Church" in Springfield.

Your friend may be well connected, but he is not well read.

We have to face the sad fact that not all Roman Catholic priests are well educated or well read. The key thing is how to inform them? Can Eastern Catholic visiting faculty be used to improve the seminary formation of Roman Catholic priests? Can seminars be arranged for Roman Catholic priests in your local area to teach them about Eastern Catholicism? Can your local Roman Catholic Bishop be encouraged to take a greater interest in educating his clergy about Eastern Catholicism? Etc.

Please realize that most Roman Catholics have little direct experience of Eastern Catholicism and probably very little undertanding of the Christian East in general. You also find a lot of inaccurate or outdated information. The whole matter might simply seem rather complicated for many people. So, education is needed!

Hello Bob,

Christ is Risen!!! (Ever since this last Pascha that is my favorite greeting. Is it ok to use it out of season?)


What do you mean by OTOH and uoj?

Well, this friend is an older friend. I think in his 70's. He seems well read, or at the least well read in Roman literature. Anyone ever heard of the book Trail, Tribulation and Triumph? He's the author of that book. If you had read the book, you would understand better the kind of person he is because of the research done for it.

But he is of that older generation which made me think of something someone posted somewhere in one of the other threads about how older Eastern Catholic parishes would be named "St. so and so Roman Catholic Church of the blank Rite".

Kyrie eleison,

Manuel

"OTOH" = 'on the other hand'

you may want to put this link in your favorites

Internet Acronyms [gaarde.org]

uoj - the only usage with which I'm familiar (unorthodox Jew) doesn't fit the context; I suspect a typo. Bob?

Many years,

Neil

Dear Latin Catholic,

Christ is Risen !!!

It has taken a full year of talking, reading (and mostly online since I'm too broke to get all the books I would want to read lol) and just letting it sink in and think about it and now being able to express it on this forum has really helped me understand everything much more clearly.

When I talk to my Latin friends and they ask like "their loyal to the Pope right?" or "they follow the Pope?" I feel uneasy in explaining things because they have had no preparation to hear things slowly about the history, spirituality or theology and to get that this is a totally different system of living and being a Christian/Catholic than in Rome. Heck, I think when I first started going to the Melkite parish I thought it was just a different rite with different expression of liturgy and spirituality but still believed the same as Roman Catholics.

I think that I am just getting that being an Eastern Christian is just a radically different way of being a Christian, of relating to the Church and a different mind that sees and expresses the truth in a different language.

I think I have still been superposing the thinking of Rome, the mind of Rome while trying to understand that East. I need to stop thinking like a Roman, I think, if I want to better understand the mind of the East and take on that mind if I am to become a Melkite.

Kyrie eleison,

Manuel