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Shlomo Lkhoolkhoon,

Some interesting notes as to these results. First, we still do not have an accurate number for the Syro-Malankarese Community in North America. I am willing to bet that its numbers equal that of the Syro-Malabar. If that is true then our numbers (we Eastern Catholics) are indeed impressive.

Also, within the Antiochene-Edessan Churches these numbers show that nearly all of us need to have more eparchs (excepting the Syriacs); and the the Syro-Malankarese need to get off their duffs and get a few appointed to North Ameriac.

We Maronites could have one to two new eparchs, and with two Chathedrals available (Detroit and Los Angeles) we could easily establish such.

The Chaldeans with the vantastic growth could easily establish a new eparchy (probably in the New York/New Jersey area) to help grow their Church here in North America; or they could be very radical and establish a Canadian exarchate.

As for the the Syro-Malabar and Malankarese I just want to scream. They are worse than we Maronites when it comes to waiting for orders from the Colonial office. If they got their acts together, the grow of Eastern Catholicism in North America would see a new renaissance.

Now to Churches that should work to establish themselves here better, the primary candidate is the Ethiopian Ge'ez Church. If they would send, or have trained American priests in their Divine Liturgy they would have an Eparchy in a year.

From what I understand from unoffical sources, if a community has five parishes that are stable for a number of years (between 5 and 10), then an exarchate will be established for it. An exception to this is the Russian and Bylorussian Catholic Churches which Rome will not permit to have exarchs or eparchs for fear of offending Moscow. As many of you know, I say Rome should tell Moscow to stick it since this is an internal Catholic matter, but they won't and faithful Byzantine Russian and Bylorussian Catholics will be made to pay the price.

Now a good thing that coulc come about if some of our sister communities would organize is that we Eastern Catholics would be standing on our own two feet. If the Ethiopian Ge'ez Church does organize, then they could help the two Coptic Catholic parishes here in North America, and the Eritrean Ge'ez Community would also be able to organize. What I see happening for that Holy Tradition is that a Ethiopian Ge'ez eparch would be appointed. He would then have a person that ministered to the Eritrean Community and one to serve the Coptic.

Well I hope our numbers here in North America keep going up, and not from immigration but from evangelization.

Fush BaShlomo Lkhoolkhoon,
Yuhannon

Shawn, my brother,

I absolutely agree with you as regards the Ethiopian Church - particularly its Eritrean faithful, whom I believe are significantly more numeous in the US than the Ethiopians themselves. The number of Eritrean Catholic communities in the US which are either unserved or underserved is ridiculous and it's almost a certainty that many of those will be lost to either the Latin Church or to the Eritrean Tewahedo Church in just a few years if nothing is done for them. Unless I've missed something, it's now been more than a couple of years since the last US visitation by any of the Ethiopian/Eritrean hierarchs. A few Latin dioceses have been very supportive of these faithful, but others have merely lumped them into the loose oversight of their Black or African ministry, where everyone else is Latin.

The prospects for the Copts to be served by the Ethiopians or Eritreans is, however, I think doubtful. While the two Churches both derive from the Alexandrian Rite, the differences in liturgical praxis are enough that I don't think you'd find the Copts all that amenable to the idea. The Copts have, however, asked for a third parish - in Chicago - without success, raising the question most recently on the occasion of their Patriarch's last US visitation. The 2 US parishes that they have - LA and NY - are vastly different, with the former being rather well-established and the latter pretty much having to fend for itself from what I've been able to gather. Other than Chicago, I don't know where there are sizeable communities; although there is a large Egyptian community in Eastern MA and southern NH, for instance, it is principally Coptic Orthodox. I occasionally hear of individual Copts worshipping with Byzantine communities (most often with Melkites, despite differences in Arabic dialect).

Next year's AP data should include some numbers for the Malankara, given that the exarchate is now in place, albeit it will be a year or two until those demonstrate enough consistency to be relied on (to the extent that church census data can ever be relied on).

The Chaldean eparchy in San Diego and the one in Michigan are a study in contrasts, with the latter in sore need of an injection of the vibrancy that characterizes the other.

One thing to keep in mind vis-a-vis the Oriental Churches and the Chaldean Church is that all of those are still, at this point in time and likely for some decades to come, much more ethnic than the majority of the Byzantine Rite Churches or the Maronites. The Byzantines (most - the Romanians being the notable exception) and Maronites attract significantly more Westerners into their congregations than do the Orientals or Chaldeans. In that regard, those Churches look a lot like our Churches did a century ago; marriages outside the community are still the exception, English is the minority usage insofar as liturgical language, etc.

As to the Russians, nothing will change there anytime soon, and I doubt that you'll ever see another Byelorusian parish erected in the US. The faithful were pretty much concentrated geographically and, at this point, have been effectively dispersed - being subsumed into other Byzantine Churches, into the Latin Church, or into their Orthodox counterpart. The Byelorusian GC Church in the US, like that of the Croats, is reduced to a footnote in the memory of folks here who decry the loss of these temples.

Many years,

Neil

Shlomo Neil,



You are correct. In 1998 I worked with Fr. Steven of Our Lady of Fatima Russian Catholic Church to have priests of the Ethiopian College in Rome to visit. The Archbishop of San Francisco was kind enough to finance their trip here.


What I would like to see is for African-American priests to be trained in the Ge'ez Rites and have them become biritual.


This gives the Coptic Catholic Community a better chance than I had thought. With LA and NY you can also add Toronto (Holy Family Coptic Catholic Church) and Montreal as established communities; therefore an exarchate for North America can be established.


Can you attach information about this exarchate for me? From what I can see it is suppose to be based out of Hyde Park in New York. If it is, that is great because it can take advantage of CNEWA and other Eastern Catholic Churches in the area.


Agreed, and with a free floting eparch it gives this Church a chance to bring good qualities forward in a new eparchy.


Agreed.


The Russians now have enough to appoint an eparch. They should and deal with the fallout from the Vatican. It is always easier to ask for foregiveness than permission.

Fush BaShlomo,
Yuhannon

Dear Yuhannon,

Glory to Jesus Christ!

I am curious, since it seems that there are few Coptic Catholic parishes. I'm not sure if you have ever asked, but if a Coptic Catholic finds himself where there is a Coptic Orthodox parish and a Roman Catholic parish, but no Coptic Catholic parish, what has been the pastoral advice for Coptic Catholics in that situation?

I ask because of the mixed responses I've seen on here for Byzantine Catholics.

Kyrie eleison,

Manuel

Shlomo Manuel,

Well what I do is go to the Orthodox parish since its Liturgy is simular to mine. My eparch has stated that he wants us to understand our Liturgy since we should have an understanding of our Faith. What one can do is go to Divine Liturgy on Sunday to the Orthodox Church, and attend the Roman Church for all other functions.

Fush BaShlomo,
Yuhannon

Dear Yuhannon,

Thank you for your reply. Also, what language are you typing when greeting and parting?

Kyrie eleison,

Manuel

Shlomo (Peace in Syriac Aramaic) Manuel,

Syriac is the Liturgical Language of my Church.

Fush BaShlomo (Stay in Peace),
Yuhannon

Glory to Jesus Christ!

Shalom (Peace Hebrew)
Salam (Peace Arabic)

Is it a Semitic language?

Kyrie eleison,

Manuel

Both Hebrew and Arabic are Semitic languages.

Fr. Serge

Shawn,

I hate to be negatve, but ...

I think that's a very unlikely happening. The logistics alone argue against it. Training in the Rite and learning the liturgical language (keep in mind that almost all the faithful are relatively recent - 10 to 12 years - emigrants and look for their worship to be in either Ge'ez or Tigrinya, the former now solely a liturgical tongue) are daunting prospects and not readily undertaken in the states.

Additionally, the numbers of African-American clergy in the US don't readily lend themselves to being stretched all that far. As to the African-born clergy in the US, I believe that the vast majority are specifically ministering to the clusters of their own countrymen in the various Latin dioceses where the effort at outreach to these emigrants has been undertaken. I suspect that few Latin dioceses would be willing to risk losing those clergy back to their home dioceses because of unhappiness over being asked to adopt - even on a bi-ritual basis - the praxis of another Church su iuris.

Although lumping the Ethiopians and Eritreans into existing Latin Rite Black ministries smacks of the early 20th century response to the EC Slavs - 'you can worship with the Polish, you're all Slavs', I'm afraid that it's the best that's going to happen until the Metropolia in Addis Ababa sends more clergy this way (which it may well not be in a position to do, financially) or te hosting Latin jurisdictions here see the need as something that should cause them to offer footing the cost for clergy to come. I'm not sure that the numbers in any one place are such that they yet feel forced to do that. Boston has one, locally trained immigrant priest - bi-ritual Latin (which isn't new to the Ethiopians, where most clergy are, because of the unusual juridictional set-up there). I don't know that any of the other Latins have done that as yet, as it's been a couple years now since I researched the situation in the course of working on the directory.


See this thread. The Long Island locale is not new to the Malankara. It's been their administrative centre since they first had an Apostolic Visitator appointed several years back. In truth, as regards other EC/OC Churches, I suspect you'll mainly see interaction w/ the Malabarese; despite the ritual differences between the two, the cultural links have meant some cross-over in attendance in those areas where only one of the two is situated.


True enough (your final observation, that is), but there is no synodal body to act and I would seriously doubt that the hierarchs involved with the 4 parishes (the bishops of 4 Latin jurisdictions and the eparchs of 2 Byzantine ones, who afford them episcopal visitation and spiritual omophorion) are likely to tell the presbyters to go ahead and try. Such goings on create situations like that currently afoot in the Latin diocese of Cleveland. The existing Russian parishes in the US, albeit deprived of their own hierarch, are decently situated in supportive environments and likely better off for such than were they to strike off on their own right now.

Many years,

Neil

Glory to Jesus Christ!

Thank you Father. I knew that. I obviously was not clear in my question though. I meant if Syriac Aramaic was semitic. I was using the Hebrew and Arabic as comparisons on how similar the greeting was.

Kyrie eleison,

Manuel

An observation unrelated to the other matters raised.

Data for the Albanian Byzantine Church sui iuris lists its sole juridiction - the Apostolic Administration of Southern Albania (Albania Meridionale). The Apostolic Administration is described as having 9 parishes; it does, but only 1 of those is Byzantine - Shenjtë Virgjër Meri Shqip Grek-Katolik in Elbasan.

The other 8 are Latin parishes canonically subject to the Apostolic Administration.

Many years,

Neil

Syriac is Semitic, the alphabet is almost exactly the same as Hebrew, pronouncation is slightly different.

Clarification: The alphabet sounds like Hebrew.. looks different