www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Fr. Gabriel Bunge (OSB) has been received into Holy Orthodoxy

Nor has Kyr Zoghby.

I believe there is relevance in this conversation because it touches upon the issues that often lead an Eastern Catholic or even a Latin Catholic to become Eastern Orthodox.

I am reminded of a lady from my parish who considered herself Orthodox but who attended the liturgy every Sunday.
She did a lot for the parish, but struggled with where she belonged. She didn't believe in "Orthodox in communion with Rome" and that led her to go to the OCA. It was a loss for the parish, but she followed her conscience.

Yet, there are those who say they are Orthodox yet are not willing to become formally Orthodox for issues that don't pertain to faith.

A Roman Catholic youth group was left scandalized by the visit of a Byzantine Catholic priest who said he didn't follow the Pope but his Patriarch. Apparently, the priest made statements that didn't go over well with the group. When asked why he didn't just become Orthodox, the priest said there were "benefits" to being Catholic. Those benefits were interpreted to mean being pastor of a parish which he may not have gotten if he were to become Orthodox.

I've always wondered about that. Are there "Orthodox in communion with Rome" who don't follow their conscience and formally become Orthodox because of the loss of "benefits" or position they have at a parish or within an eparchy?

That doesn't sound to me as one who lives truthfully to oneself.

Glory to Jesus Christ!


Nor the other 24 of 26 Bishops that signed the Zoghby Initiative

Kyrie eleison,

Manuel

Dear friend,

no my comment was not specifically directed to you. I just do not see what Bishop John (Elya) has to do with the conversion of Hieromonk Gabriel to the Russian Orthodox Church. This thread seems to be mixing a lot of different issues.

Diogenes with his lantern discovered that many are such.

They didn't have to. Rome told them all that it's not possible "to believe in everything that Eastern Orthodoxy teaches".

Blessings to all.

Tautologies "R" Us.

So, just why are you a Byzantine Catholic?

Glory to Jesus Christ!

Dear Stuart,

What is Tautologies?

Dear Griego,

I have been wanting to ask that same question that Stuart did. But if I may. Do you see yourself as a different Rite with in the Roman Catholic Church or do you see yourself as a member of your particular church in union with the church of Rome?

Kyrie eleison,

Manuel

Tautology: (1) using different words to say the same thing even if the repetition does not provide clarity.
(2) a technical notion in formal logic, universal unconditioned truth, always valid.

In this particular case, more (1) than (2).

Glory to Jesus Christ!

Thank you Stuart.

Kyrie eleison,

Manuel

Well, it all began in high school...

Short version: Those who've heard my story believe it was the Lord's will.

Why have you not formally become Eastern Orthodox?

Because God put me where He wanted me. When I can no longer live as an Orthodox Christian in communion with the Church of Rome, then I suppose it will be a sign God no longer wants me here, but rather there. It's all really quite the same to me.

I happen to think Christian unity is important, and that the Church of Rome has priority should preside in love. But I also believe that much Rome has done in the second millennium exceeds the reasonable bounds of primacy, and I also believe that Rome is as damaged by the absence of communion with the Orthodox Churches as the Orthodox Churches are damaged by the absence of communion with Rome.

I believe that our mission, as Greek Catholics, is to demonstrate to the Orthodox the possibility of being Orthodox while in communion with Rome, and to bear witness to the ecumenical promises Rome has made to the Orthodox Churches. After all, if we who are already in communion with the Church of Rome are not treated with respect and dignity, if our Tradition is subordinated to the doctrines of the Latin Church, how can the Orthodox be expected to take Rome at its word.

So, I also agree with Father Lawrence Cross, who wrote that it is our duty to resist--even to the point of schism--any efforts on the part of the Church of Rome to distort, manipulate or subordinate our authentic Tradition.

I agree with this post.

Yes, as an Eastern Catholic I see this as a most sacred duty.

Far be it for me to laud the excesses of power, blatant corruption and debauchery emanating from papal Rome from time to time, but do you think it possible, from an eastern perspective, to see the hand of Providence in what appear to be over-extensions of the reasonable bounds of primacy in leading the western church through much of the muck and mire of medieval, and Renaissance Europe; not to mention the Reformation, Counter-Reform and on and on down through the catastrophes of the twentieth century? I think of Yeat's The Second Coming. Would this church of the Roman communion have survived without such a strong papacy? I even think it possible, in some strange way, to see Orthodoxy's survival because of this. As in, an enemy sometimes serves as a focal point. I liked your apologia.

Good point!
But in most of the cases the Eastern Catholic Churches have big problems in preserving their specific tradition. There are so many latinized (if I may call it so) parishes, even Churches, that are keeping only a shadow of the Byzantine Tradition. In this case I think that some of the Tradition is lost, and there is still much to be done in order to recover what was lost. I can give lots of examples. The best example I can give is that there are philological differences between some national Orthodox Churches and they Catholic counterpart (best example is the Romanian case). Also the authentic Byzantine monastic tradition is poorly represented in most of the Byzantine Catholic Churches with the notable exception of the Melkite Church and the Ukrainian one. And the list can go further on. Unless we will truly show that we are really Byzantine and not just a mere copy, the Orthodox will see us as what we are: just a bad copy of the original.