www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall The Push to Ordain Women Priests Gains Ground

I was actually kind of surprised by some of what's in this

http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20100927/us_time/08599202151900

Lord have mercy!

Why is there such a spirit of rebellion and egotism in some females?

A secure female is not afraid to follow and respect the ancient tradition of the Church, IMHO.

The press always makes more of this than is actually there. These people are about as relevant as the shopping bag ladies wearing the tin-foil hats protesting outside the White House about the orbital mind control lasers sending messages to their brains.

I thought this issue was settled in 1994 by Pope John Paul II of blessed memory. He issued a document that called on Catholics to believe that women could not be priests, that the Church could not do what the Lord had not done, and called for Catholics to stop trying to find ways to do this kind of thing.

APOSTOLIC LETTER ORDINATIO SACERDOTALIS
OF JOHN PAUL II TO THE BISHOPS
OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
ON RESERVING PRIESTLY ORDINATION TO MEN ALONE

You may find this on the Vatican website or just google it.

The question then becomes is a person who continues to dissent from this really a Catholic or not? Can a person continue to call himself a Catholic and dissent? (From the 1960s, one could conclude "yes," but what eternal consequences does this carry?) What is the reality of lawful authority? What must one do when lawful authority makes a final decision?

Bob

The article is misleading. It claims that a lady called Alta Jacko is "an ordained priest in the Roman Catholic Church." This is completely wrong. Under the law of the Catholic Church, "both the one who attempts to confer sacred ordination on a woman, and she who attempts to receive sacred ordination, incurs a latae sententiae excommunication reserved to the Apostolic See" (De Gravioribus Delictis, [zenit.org] art. 5 § 1). Thus, Ms. Jacko is automatically excommunicated. So is whoever attempted to ordain her. Notice the use of the verb "attempt": it means that it is in fact impossible to ordain a woman, but even attempting to do so is a crime against the Sacrament of Orders. So, Ms. Jacko is neither a priest nor in the Roman Catholic Church.

Time really got this one wrong!

I did not see any indication that a consecrating bishop presided at her ordination, so I have to assume that these are "samopopodtsy" priestesses.

I would agree, but when there is a change in roles that has now become essentially commonplace, such as with altar servers and eucharistic ministers; it is not surprising that a lot of people wouldn't see the next logical step as ordination. The surprising thing to me in the article is the assistance being given from the inside.

We still have a large number of leftover 1960s dissidents inside. This seems to be largely a function of the English-speaking world, though there is some movement in the Germanic parts of the world--Germany and the Low countries. It seems to me to be part of the failure of catechesis in the past 45 years--part of the "spirit of Vatican II" mindset that thought that everything was up for grabs, discussion, and change; part of the idea that we were supposed to "reform and bring up to date" everything, including doctrine. Keep us in your prayers, please.

It's interesting that the Catholic Church is dialoguing with the Eastern Churches who share Apostolic origin, practice, doctrine, and liturgy, yet we can't seem to keep our own house in order. Thus we have scandalized a good many of our own Eastern brethren as well as our Orthodox brethren, many of whom might have entertained the THOUGHT of moving toward communion only to put the idea out of their minds because of this sort of thing and the fact that Rome can't seem to exercise the authority that has been claimed to reside in the Petrine office.

Bob

I find this whole story absurd and it surprises me that so many of you are discussing it as though it is serious. Anyone with even the most rudimentary understand of Roman Catholic doctrine would understand that a woman cannot be ordained a priest no matter what the facilities of the mysterious hidden bishop who did the ordination. This is constantly discussed in other threads when apostolic succession is discussed. It has been made abundantly clear that the women ordained by the Anglican churches can never be considered priests in the Catholic Church even if the Church were to agree tomorrow to recognize the orders of all of the male Anglican priests.

To be validly ordained the Bishop must have the authority to ordain the person and the person must be qualified to be ordained. By definition women are not qualified to be ordained in the Roman Catholic Church.

To consider Time magazine an authoritative source on anything is a bit of a stretch but to accept it as having anything but the most questionable motives when it reports on anything Roman Catholic is the height of naiveté.

I suppose some of them think if the Emperor Gaius Caligula could make his horse Incitatus a senator, then a bishop ought to be able to ordain a woman as a presbyter. Their Graces know what happened to Caligula, though.

That comparison is inappropriate! No need for rudeness!

I think you're missing the point.

The point is that this is clearly an outlier and does not represent the position of the Magisterium or the Catholic hierarchy regardless of attempts to portray it as such by the media or others. Infinite examples of aberrant behavior can be given for any organized religious body.

Popes Paul VI, John Paul II, and Benedict XVI have indeed exercised their authority on this matter. Just because the rebels keep pushing the envelope doesn't mean it's an open question.

The Orthodox have their own rebels: the late Patriarch Parthenius III of Alexandria, Elizabeth Behr-Siegel, Anthony Bloom, Valerie Karras (just to name a few prominent Orthodox modernists) all have favored the innovation women priests.

I will have to compare that with theophan's statement that there is a lot of internal dissent on the matter. What was surprising to me as I said was the support being offered by those on the inside. As I said, it isn't surprising to me that there is a culture of expectation that has developed based on the changing roles at the parish level.


Are the priests in question likely to be disciplined?