www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Ruthenian Catholic, Fish on Friday or no?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
I am looking for a specifically Ruthenian technical answer to this question (someone asked me and I honestly do not know the answer. Do Ruthenians eat fish (or allow for eating fish) on Friday like Latin Rite Catholics during lent? I notice on our fasting calendar that even on days of strict fast there is a picture of a fish on it (as if a fish symbolizes fasting, maybe hinting that we are meant to eat fish that day?) but I know that Orthodox Churches do not eat fish on Friday and that we are probably encouraged to keep more Orthodox practices/culture, so I welcome any ones advice as to why we should avoid it anyway, but still want he technical answer of whether it is allowed specifically in the Ruthenian rite.
I hope I have not asked this question before, but if I have I think I may have been confused because there are so many different traditions and answers around here. The thing that is more difficult for me about being Eastern Catholic is that there are less resources to just quickly look these things up so I wouldn't have to ask.

This is as official as you can get; the excerpt is from promulgated Particular Law of the Byzantine Metropolitan Church:

Canon 880 §2

§1. The special penitential seasons are:

1o. The Great Fast

2o. The Peter and Paul Fast

3o. The Dormition Fast [August 1-14]

4o. The Philip Fast [November 15-December 24]

§2. Strict abstinence is to be observed on the first day of the Great Fast and on Great Friday. Simple abstinence is to be observed on Wednesdays and Fridays of the Great Fast.

§3. Simple abstinence or an equivalent penance is to be observed on all Fridays throughout the year.

Christ is amongst us!
Fr Deacon Paul

The Fast on Friday would be over once Vespers commences on the day.

Nothing stops the faithful from doing more--except, perhaps, the lack of encouragement to try to do more from those in charge of their spiritual development. My own preference is to establish the full tradition as the norm, and encourage people (a) to do what they can; and (b) strive to do better. The norms of the particular law are a good example of the "latinization of the mind" of which I spoke elsewhere.

Glory to Jesus Christ!

From what I read somewhere, or learned from someone, the Latin mindset tends to focus on the bare minimum as the bar to set, but there suppose to be more once you reach that bar/norm. But ppl tend to forget that there is more that one should do in the West. I am speaking from personal experience as well as the experience of friends of mine. The East tends to set the bare high, as close to perfection as possible I guess one could say, and one is to reach as best they can to that bar and if they do not reach it this time, one need not worry about having committed a sin (which, one of my Roman brothers, but if you do not fast even though you know you should for Lent for example, is that held as a sin for us? I say us since I am still canonically Roman) but rather commit yourself to doing better and reaching higher the next time.

If I have misunderstood anything, please help my understanding.

Kyrie eleison,

Manuel

Stuart,

SearchingEast asked the question and Particular Law provides the answer. Providing a different answer by sidestepping the question and substituting a "ideal" is certainly "byzantine" .....but not in the complimentary way.

As someone who was more used to the Latin Rite, I find the lack of detail amusing or interesting. I see that my question really has been answered, but not really. I guess I was looking for a more specific Ruthenian definition of simple fast and if it includes fish. I agree that it is good to do more though depending on ones advice from specific spiritual guides.
And then the other issue that I realize there is no answer to comes up. Whether the fast is a 24 hr calendar day fast. Vespers to Vespers or simply waking up and going to bed if you work weird hours maybe. I think the answer is just: yes. Choose a way to keep it and keep it. I personally do not fast Thursday evenings and do not stop fasting on Friday evenings even though I recognize that the liturgical day has started/ended with Vespers. I know folks out there in the Orthodox world sometimes do it one way and sometimes another. I have heard people both proclaim it one way or another. Perhaps the time to be attentioned to detail needs to pass away, and to concentrate on the heart of the matter is at hand. I just don't like the idea of say having an early dinner on Thursday and fasting after Vespers and then ending the fast Friday night with a late meal. Seems that one could do that if fasting vespers to vespers and really not have gone a day without meat. Or the 24 hour day person could stay up past midnight and break the fast technically. That is why what makes sense to me is just from midnight Thursday till I go to bed on Friday eve/Saturday morning. But still the question of fish remains.

Some details are available from the Stamford Eparchy website, see page three of this issue.

http://www.stamforddio.org/Sower%20PDF%20files/Sower%20February%202010%20combined.pdf

The Orthodox way, which we as Byzantine or Greek Catholics ought to follow, is to present the fullness of the Tradition and provide support and encouragement to the faithful to live up to the ideal. There is no sin in failing to observe the full rigor of the fast, provided one has done as much as one possibly can, given one's physical limitations and state of spiritual development, for, as Chrysostom says,

"He both honors the work and praises the intention".

The Ruthenian particular law lays out bare minima, establishes them as norms, and then does nothing to encourage people to do more. I never heard anyone speaking from the ambo once explain the fullness of the fast, or encourage anyone to try to live up to that ideal. And, with few exceptions, I never saw the leaders of the Church actually setting an example. For instance, once during Filipovka, the bishop and a number of priests from the Eparchy visited the parish and were served dinner in the parish hall--chicken. And, with the exception of the rector of the seminary, they all ate it. And all the people emulated them. So, how do you get the people to practice asceticism when you won't do it yourself?

Set the bar low, and don't be surprised when the people live down to your expectations. Take the Eucharistic fast, for example: the particular law of the Ruthenian Church mirrors that of the Latin Church: no food an hour before receiving--which, given the length of the Divine Liturgy (even the RDL) means, in effect, spit out your gum when entering the church. Ascetic discipline is a very low priority for the Ruthenian Church.

Too, the difference is - and maybe why you are looking for law - we fast because we love God, not because the 'law' states that we must. Thus, fasting takes on a whole different perspective.

It seems you are looking for the rules of a 'bloodless fast'. If so, then one would not eat fish on Fridays.

The part that is toughest for me to see keeping with the strict orthodox fast is the no oil. I sometimes feel guilty because I just have not learned to cook and am often eating on the go, so I just try to do what I can to avoid meat and large amounts of dairy in products from local stores or restaurants (soem decent vegan soups out there), while still eating enough to get through a day. But I can not imagine asking people to cook without using any oil. For this reason I think that I should eventually have to learn to cook or watch to see how others keep the fast. Hope it is no fault or sin that I am slack in doing so, for I think it is worth the effort.
But some tel me that the no oil rule was developed in monasteries and considered the extra strict and ideal way of doing it, but not necessarily practical.

*****
I HAVE heard from the pulpit about the fast. But I also acknowledge that we have much more to teach. Twice I was at post-funeral lunches and they actually served meat (without alternatives). I spoke to the caterer afterwards (no, I didn't eat the meat). She said that's what the people wanted. I said that as the caterer you should keep fastdays in mind and remind the customer and offer alternatives.

Back to the subject of this thread, the fast specified is for EVERYONE WHO RECEIVES THE EUCHARIST. This means that the age limitations have been removed and applies from infants to the eldest. Dispensations can be granted by the priest. I stand subject to correction but I think this may be stricter than the Orthodox.

Yes, our particular law allows the eating of fish.

Given that one can follow the full tradition and still eat lobster, I don't see the allowance of fish as a latinization so much as an accomodation to current circumstances.

I have heard the same complaints from Orthodox about their bishops. The bottom line is legislating asceticism doesn't work. People take it up because they think it is needed and helpful and they have seen the fruit of it in others.