www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Pope & Patriarchs (1848): Pius IX & Orthodox Patriarchs Letters

Of possible interest:

In 1848 the first contact in modern ecumenical history between East and West occurred with the Apostolic Letter from Pope Pius IX to Eastern Christians and a reply the same year from the Eastern Orthodox Patriarchs. Included in the article below is a link to the first online English translation of Pius IX's Apostolic Letter: In suprema Petri apostoli sede, “On the Supreme Throne of Peter the Apostle” (6 January 1848).

http://orthocath.wordpress.com/2010...ope-pius-ix-and-the-orthodox-patriarchs/

Thanks for the English translation. It is, then, a translation from the French by a Michaël de Verteuil? Spurred on by this item in another recent thread, I got as far as getting a copy of the Latin original.

I've only browsed through the two documents for now. So, what do you think?

I should add that I am presuming the Latin is the original although it would do well to also have the Greek version that is noted in the "Encyclical of the Eastern Patriarchs":

Yes, Michaël is a Catholic friend who graciously offered to do the translation. I can read French but am not really qualified to attempt translation, except for bits and pieces. So, the file is a joint production by a Catholic and an Orthodox Christian.

I pursued the project because I love historical theology. There are not a lot of surprises in the papal letter, considering the era. The bit about Orthodox needing to have a few corrections in the Eastern liturgies (page 12 of the pdf) is not really a surprise considering earlier statements by other Popes.

Though there are Orthodox and Catholic who still are mentally at the 1848 stage of the ecumenical discussion, I believe we've come a long way, though some of the basic issues still remain unresolved and some might say that Vatican I (1870) may have complicated things.

I wonder what he had in mind.

My take is it's related to the same issues that Pope Pius IX referred to in OMNEM SOLLICITUDINEM [ewtn.com] that we discussed awhile ago.

Even there, though some specifics are given, there is nothing explicit.

Even where our judgment of the past might properly be critical now, the real interpretation and best judgment is how the principles stated in the past in the context of the circumstances of the past, have actually unfolded for the present. And we are responsible for the judgment of the present. For the Ruthenian churches, an objective source and indicator is the Ruthenian Recension, ca. 1941 ( link [patronagechurch.com] ). I see it as the proper fruition of the sentiments of Pius IX and his predecessors, worked out over the years under and with his successors, through advances and setbacks, but culminating in a proper form, a worthwhile achievement. If that is accepted then the most immediate question is where do we go, how are we going, from there. That is why I think there is all the fuss about the Revised Divine Liturgy in the Byzantine Catholic Church: Is it, overall, an advancement or a setback? (That's a rhetorical question here but a real question on the RDL forum.)

Yes, the Ruthenian Recension is a great work and there is much to be lauded in the direction Eastern Catholics have gone, especially since Vatican II.

Still, understanding the "advances and setbacks" in the relationship between the papacy and the Eastern Catholic Churches helps to form a more balanced view of the history, I believe.

I agree. Solid facts and the truth are always pertinent.