www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Islamic Terrorism

Peace everyone,

I am aware this website is for Roman Catholicism, but i've just read a message from Patriarch Gregorios concerning the attacks on the Syriac Catholic Church in Baghdad.

He says:

How does he know that this criminal act is not the work of "Authentic Islam"? Do you, as theologians, agree with that statement?

Why, as a Middle Eastern Christian, I can say that this is the work of Authentic Islam. In fact, Muslim/Islamic Forums on the internet are even giving quotes from the Quran justifying these attacks on Christians. In fact, I hasten to add that their comments have justified every single event of the attacks - from the kidnapping of the hostages, to their murder. Every single step has been justified in the Quran. (I will post the links of a few websites as proof if you wish).

As far as I am aware, in Islam, Christians are not innocent. That is said to our faces daily in Egypt: our blood is "Hallal" for them. Its no secret. Its shouted from the speakers on every mosque in every street.

Most of the sectarian violence in Egypt happens after friday prayers - why? Because the Imams preach on that day. They'd have fueled muslims into turning against Christians. Look at ANY terrorist activity in the world, its nearly after a friday sermon.

After I attend mass in my Church, i leave with a sense of peace, a sense of joy in my heart. Muslims leave with a sense of anger from their mosques, ready for battle after the Friday sermons.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but do you see Authentic Islam as non violent towards Christians and other religious minority groups?

I'm asking this question not only in light of what His Holiness Patriarch Gregorios has said, but also in terms of Comparative Theology.

The religious text books being shipped out of Saudi Arabia to every single muslim school in the world teaches that Kafirs and infidels should be subjugated. In fact, a sign or manifestation of one's love for "allah" is to subdue the kafir, and show them anger and displeasure.

I mean, if you are a Coptic Christian studying at school between the ages of 9 and 16, you will be studying such things: whether in Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Indonesia, King Fahad School UK, anywhere!

Muslims don't hide this.

As far as I am concerned, I disagree with His Holiness. Our Christians are being attacked by "Authentic Islam". In fact, the British Government have even invested millions to export their version of Islam.. lol (i.e. the NON Authentic).

I think although His Holiness had good and peaceful intentions, he is not being realistic. The reason why the war in Afghanistan and Iraq is failing IS because the US military is up against an ideology, not a bunch of common criminals that they need to catch. Not at all.

I find such naivety terribly dangerous.

You can argue and say "well.. there are moderate muslims who do not go around killing innocent Christians".

a) These moderate muslims have shown they agree with what the fanatics do.
b) These moderate muslims have the potential to be radicalized by simply someone invoking the verses from the Quran that incite violence. Whether it be Nadal Hassan, the 7/7 july bombers, the girl who tried to kill a Labour MP in the UK.. and they are all supported.
I know personally of at least 4 muslims (I know them personally) who thought the attacks on 9/11 were done by heroes.

These muslims live and work in Europe. Obviously they are no longer my friends, but suffice to say, their opinions were abundantly clear.

I would interested in your perspectives. I feel to combat such terrorism which is directed against us (as Christians) , we need to face the problem up-front. We shouldn't hide behind flowery words.

The only difference between a moderate and a fanatical muslim is the zeal in which they wish to obey their god. Those who do not obey their god either have no understanding of what he is asking from them, or have mis-interpreted it.

I will quote the words of an ex-muslim terrorist, now turned evangelical Christian (Mosab Hassan Youssef):


So, moderate muslims also are moderate because of their personal common sense. They are radicalized through the Quran. I.e. through education.

I'd give a lot of credence to what Thanos888 is saying. You get to know a thing by observing what it DOES, which might be very different to what it SAYS.

The reason why this bothers me is because sometimes political correctness only results in irresponsibility. If a patient is diagnosed with cancer and the doctor who diagnosed the condition is afraid to tell the truth so as to not offend the patient, this is totally irresponsible.

There's NOTHING wrong with the truth for it to be avoided.

As Christians, we worship God in TRUTH.
We worship the Spirit of Truth!
We live in Truth.

To go off and say that Authentic Islam is not the problem is far from the truth. (Im sorry to say that). I find it totally irresponsible.

His Holiness Pope Shenouda III, Pope and patriarch of the Coptic Orthodox Church, travelled to the USA during the Carter Administration years to highlight the problems his church was facing due to Islam. Period. He didnt say anything derogatory about Islam, but rather he focused on what his problems were.

The administration brushed this off as if it was nothing.

a few decades later, 9/11 happened which cost 3,000 American lives. All this could have been prevented had the US listened to the warnings that it was being given from those it should have trusted.

His Holiness Patriarch Gregorios should have said ONE small thing only:

PLEASE EXAMINE THE BOOKS THAT THE SAUDI MINISTRY OF EDUCATION IS PUBLISHING FOR EVERY MUSLIM STUDENT ON THEIR RELIGIOUS EDUCATION CURRICULUM. The material in there is raising radicalized, fanatical muslims who believe that God is endorsing their hatred towards non muslims.

This is a fact.

H.H Gregorios's letter will cause him more problems. I'd have expected a Patriarch, especially from the M.E, to be well versed in both his religion and that of his fellow country men.

If he was raised in the M.E, he'd have studied from the same curriculum we all studied from:

* The love for God is manifested by subduing and humiliating the kafirs.

We studied these verses.

There's loads of them.

God hates the kafir, and if you love God, you too ought to hate the kafir.

These are the lessons in such books.

Your options are, if you want to save Christians from annihilation in the M.E is to :

a) Re-educate them about islam using a different version of Islam than that is being spread by the Saudi Ministry of Education. Use the British -Government endorsed version as an example (lol)

b) option a) is so highly unlikely, I would suggest that they just leave the country

c) Obama cannot go around telling the world "America is not at war with islam". How does he know? How can he comment on Islam? Is he an expert? Has he practiced it to know??

Its a shame he was raised in these indonesian maddrassas yet he has forgotten their contents.

Of course you can say to yourself "well, the US know that Islam IS the problem, but they cannot openly say it."

Then why are they in Iraq and Afghanistan? If they know Islam IS the problem, surely they'd have known that a military presence in ANY muslim country will cause bloodshed???

For goodness sake, Osama bin Laden is just one of 100000000000's of muslims. They're going to find this out the hard way, and it will cost more lives.

Look: Egypt is meant to be a moderate Islamic country - right? Mubarak is meant to be bum chums with Obama ? Right?

Tell me this : Why in Egypt is it compulsory to have your religion stated on your national ID cards??

What for?

Why is it impossible to change your religion from muslim to Christian on these ID cards??

The ID cards are there for the purpose of discrimination AGAINST the Christians. That's all. The amazing part is this: Its not hidden.

I mean, its not as if a teacher will secretly fail a student because of his/her religion. Not at all. it will be open, to his/her face as if its totally normal.

Explain to me this: why can only 5% of Christians join the Legal Bar? What for? What's wrong with 10 % or 100%??

This is in Egypt.

Thanos888 - I am NOT aware this site is for Roman Catholicism. What do you mean by that?

Rybak,

Sorry, I meant Byzantine Catholicism.

Is that the correct term?