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Fr. Sergei Sveshnikov wrote a couple of well balanced articles on the topic in response to another article that was written by Sister Vassa (Larin). Here is an excerpt that is might be insight full this thread.

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Women in Holy Places

Another Frankish practice that seemed to offend Byzantine sensibilities was the fact that the Romans allowed women to enter the altar (as they nowadays, after Vatican II, also do) and perhaps to commune there.[13] An interesting remark by John of Claudiopolis (12th century) may be a reference to the topic of our study: “And this [enter the sanctuary] even women whenever they wish”[14] (emphasis is mine—S.S.). In the same century, Theodore Balsamon (of Antioch) in his answer to Marcus of Alexandria (Question 35) says that “deaconesses enjoyed a rank in the Bema (or Sanctuary), but that the complications due to menstruation dispossessed them of their rank and removed their service from the Bema.”[15] Likewise, in the fourteenth century, Matthew Blastares writes that deaconesses were “forbidden by the Fathers to enter the Bema or to perform any such services due to the unfortunate event of menstruation.”[16] Thus, the chief objection for women entering the sanctuary in the East may have been related to menstruation. This same issue, evidently, was instrumental in the cessation of the practice of ordaining deaconesses.

The same considerations, apparently, continue to be relevant in the Russian Church in our time, as Metropolitan Anastasy (Gribanovsky), for example, allowed young girls to serve in the altar as acolytes, but not older ones.[17] Likewise, women after menopause are sometimes allowed to enter the altar for various reasons, but not women who are of childbearing age. Thus, the issue of menstruation is likely to play its role in the inevitable discourse on female ordinations in the future. However, we were able to find only one strictly canonical injunction against women entering the church while menstruating—Canon II of Saint Dionysios, Archbishop of Alexandria from 248 to 265.

Canonical Evidence

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Canon II of Saint Dionysios reads as follows:

Concerning menstrual women, whether they ought to enter the temple of God while in such a state, I think it superfluous even to put the question. For, I opine, not even they themselves, being faithful and pious, would dare when in this state either to approach the Holy Table or to touch the Body and Blood of Christ. For not even the woman with a twelve years’ issue would come into actual contact with Him, but only with the edge of His garment, to be cured. There is no objection to one’s praying no matter how he may be or to one’s remembering the Lord at any time and in any state whatever, and petitioning to receive help; but if one is not wholly clean both in soul and in body, he shall be prevented from coming up to the Holy of Holies.[18]
Clearly, Dionysios appeals to women themselves and their own sense of piety, while issuing an opinion, rather than a prohibition proper. Moreover, even though the question was concerning women “entering the temple of God,” Dionysios leaves this question without a definite answer, and instead speaks of approaching the Holy Table and touching the Body and Blood of Christ. Perhaps in his day entering the temple of God was understood as being for the purpose of partaking of Holy Communion, but there is little if any evidence of this. Most often (six days out of seven, since the Eucharist was likely to have been offered only on Sunday, the Day of the Lord, as has been shown by many scholars, including Fr. Robert Taft, one went to church to pray. And Dionysios finds “no objection to one’s praying “no matter how he may be” or to one’s remembering the Lord “at any time and in any state whatever,” and “petitioning to receive help,” presumably, also in the church. In fact, the interpretation of the Canon also states that “none of them [menstruating women] is forbidden to pray, whatever be her predicament (whether she be at home or in the promos [narthex?] of the church).”[19] Thus, the Canon specifically addresses menstruating women partaking of Holy Communion, not entering the church or lighting icon lamps in their homes or monastic cells.

Canons of the Church

Among other canons that Sister Vassa mentions after rhetorically asking whether communion should be withheld from the hearing-impaired, are Canons 6 and 7 of Timotheus and Canon 18 of Hippolytus. Of them, Canon 18 of the Church of Alexandria is “Of women in childbed, and of midwives again”—not a topic we wish to address specifically at the present time. Since Sister Vassa does not actually cite these texts, we find it necessary to cite them here as a matter of convenience:[20]

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QUESTION VI

If a woman who is a catechumen has given her name in order to be enlightened, and on the day appointed for the baptism she incurs the plight which regularly afflicts women, ought she to be enlightened on that day, or defer, and how long ought she to defer?

Answer

She ought to defer until she has been purified.

QUESTION VII

If a woman finds herself in the plight peculiar to her sex, ought she to come to the Mysteries on that day or not?

Answer

She ought not to do so, until she has been purified.
In the first instance, the issue seems to be quite simple: if a menstruating woman enters the baptismal font, the water will necessarily be mixed with menstrual fluids, and the woman as well as all those who follow her into the font would be baptized in a mixture of water and blood. Methinks, the advice to “defer until she has been purified” is still a very good one even in our day. The purification which is meant here is most likely natural, not ritual, since we are not aware of any specific Christian rituals for monthly purifications. In other words, a woman is expected to simply wait until the flow of blood stops and she is able to wash herself before entering the baptismal font.

Canon 7, on the other hand, does not immediately imply practical reasons for not approaching the Mysteries (Holy Communion), such as menstrual blood dripping in the sanctuary during divine services, but in the absence of any anthropological or soteriological assertions, we may assume that the unavailability of modern Western feminine hygiene products in ancient times may have been one of the reasons for canons such as this. In the previous work we have already discussed some examples of women not using any menstrual protection whatsoever even as late as the beginning of the twentieth century. Quite obviously, while this may still be the case in some parts of the world, this is no longer the case in the West, and some modifications of the rules concerning menstruating women entering temples may be in order.

Finally, the seventeenth Canon of John the Faster (John the IV, Patriarch of Constantinople from 582 to 595) mandates that a woman who partook of Holy Communion while menstruating must remain without Communion for forty days.[21] Compared to canonical penances for other offences that excommunicate the perpetrator for many years, even decades, forty days is obviously a symbolic gesture, perhaps showing that John did not view this as a serious offence. In any case, we can clearly observe definite canonical support for the rule of menstruating women abstaining from partaking of the Holy Communion, although some of the origins of these rules may not be relevant to our current circumstances.

The very fact that such rules are contained in several canonical texts, however, warrants a more careful consideration of its origins, than simply treating them as matters of public health, although this may have been the primary reason. Clearly, not all canons that can be located are of equal importance to the Church in the twenty-first century, or should even continue to be observed. But the canons regarding menstruating women and Communion have consistently been observed and referenced as applicable in the Russian Church from the twelfth century, to the 1913 edition of the Desk Reference, and to our time, as is also attested to by Sister Vassa. Moreover, Saint Augustine of Hippo (354-430) writes that literally following Mosaic Law in abstaining from sexual relations between a husband and wife, one of whom is not a Christian, during menstruation, may be one of the things which sanctifies the non-Christian partner and the couple’s children (On the Merits and Forgiveness of Sins, and on the Baptism of Infants 3:21). This sanctifying aspect of purity rules is a thread in the fabric of Orthodox Christian piety, pulling on which may help unravel the cloth.

http://frsergei.wordpress.com/2010/04/28/more-to-the-point-should-nuns-light-their-icon-lamps/

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I would love to hear Sister Vassa Larin present on this-- she has the most deliciously dry sense of humor. smile

I had thought there was a prohibition against anyone who is bleeding, male or female, being in the Holy Place. I was told that meant anyone who has a recent wound that hasn't begun healing may not be there.

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Originally Posted by likethethief
I would love to hear Sister Vassa Larin present on this-- she has the most deliciously dry sense of humor. smile

I had thought there was a prohibition against anyone who is bleeding, male or female, being in the Holy Place.

Yes you are correct. Bleeding regardless of sex is forbidden in the sanctuary. Men also are forbidden for entering due to other issues as well. Per your request here is the article by Sister Vassa (Larin): http://www.pravmir.com/article_660.html http://www.pravmir.com/article_660.html

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Originally Posted by Mike L.
Originally Posted by likethethief
I would love to hear Sister Vassa Larin present on this-- she has the most deliciously dry sense of humor. smile

Per your request here is the article by Sister Vassa (Larin): http://www.pravmir.com/article_660.html http://www.pravmir.com/article_660.html

I'll look forward to reading this! She's a wonderful scholar. I'll have to imagine her impish delivery. However, the 800 + page Pro Russia. The Russicum and Catholic Work for Russia arrived today on ILL. My other reading is on hold for these 3 weeks while I have this book on loan.

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This is common? What is it, a dispensation from the celibacy vow, so the deacon remarries and continues to serve as a deacon?

That Latin Church for some time has allowed deacons to remarry and continue serving as deacons, provided his previous wife is not alive. At first, this required a special dispensation, now it is routine.

I do not believe any such dispensation exists for Eastern deacons, nor do I think one should. Quite simply, the canons are what they are, and a deacon who wishes to remarry should simply leave the diaconate in order to do so.

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Mother Vassa's conclusion is one of the best summations of the phenomenon I have ever seen, and I reproduce it here as fully representing my own thoughts on the subject:

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A close look at the origins and character of the concept “ritual impurity” reveals a rather disconcerting, fundamentally non-Christian phenomenon in the guise of Orthodox piety. Regardless of whether the concept entered church practice under direct Judaic and/or pagan influences, it finds no justification in Christian anthropology and soteriology. Orthodox Christians, male and female, have been cleansed in the waters of baptism, buried and resurrected with Christ, Who became our flesh and our humanity, trampled Death by death, and liberated us from its fear. Yet we have retained a practice that reflects pagan and Old-Testament fears of the material world. This is why a belief in “ritual impurity” is not primarily a social issue, nor is it primarily about the depreciation of women. It is rather about the depreciation of the Incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ and its salvific consequences.

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Originally Posted by StuartK
Mother Vassa's conclusion is one of the best summations of the phenomenon I have ever seen, and I reproduce it here as fully representing my own thoughts on the subject:

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A close look at the origins and character of the concept “ritual impurity” reveals a rather disconcerting, fundamentally non-Christian phenomenon in the guise of Orthodox piety. Regardless of whether the concept entered church practice under direct Judaic and/or pagan influences, it finds no justification in Christian anthropology and soteriology. Orthodox Christians, male and female, have been cleansed in the waters of baptism, buried and resurrected with Christ, Who became our flesh and our humanity, trampled Death by death, and liberated us from its fear. Yet we have retained a practice that reflects pagan and Old-Testament fears of the material world. This is why a belief in “ritual impurity” is not primarily a social issue, nor is it primarily about the depreciation of women. It is rather about the depreciation of the Incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ and its salvific consequences.
I've been thinking about how to express myself on this issue and these words of Mother Vassa are it. I also consider the mentioned custom of taking male babies into the Altar and not female an unfortunate and unwarranted distinction, especially in that it is done in the context of baptism/chrismation, mysteries of a common identity in Christ and the common priesthood of all in Christ -- all who are baptized into Christ. It contradicts the very image properly expressed by Paul:

Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male and female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

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Originally Posted by Deacon Robert Behrens
[quote=Diak]
Article 462 of the Particular Law for the UGCC in the USA states:
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Art. 462 - Only priests, deacons, minor clerics and servers (servers act in the role of minor clerics) are allowed in the sanctuary (altar). The laity who do not perform any function relating to the services must not be given a place in the sanctuary (altar). Women are never permitted in the sanctuary (altar) during any services.







Thanks for posting this. I was not sure regarding UGCC Particular Law.

Dn. Robert

So these UGCC priests at the parishes I posted did violate the law. Thought so. Thank's for clearing this up Diak.

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I do not believe any such dispensation exists for Eastern deacons, nor do I think one should. Quite simply, the canons are what they are, and a deacon who wishes to remarry should simply leave the diaconate in order to do so.


This was most famously dispensed in recent history by Metropolitan +Philip (Saliba) of the Antiochian Orthodox Archdiocese when he allowed Fr. Joseph Allen to remarry. I understand this created quite a angry response from several within the Patriarchate of Antioch who had been denied same by +Ignatios.

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Permission to remarry is always within the oikonomia of the bishop, and like all exercises of oikonomia, they should be rare, and always controversial.

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Originally Posted by StuartK
That Latin Church for some time has allowed deacons to remarry and continue serving as deacons, provided his previous wife is not alive. At first, this required a special dispensation, now it is routine.

We have a permanent deacon in my Latin parish (who was ordained in CN before moving here). He has spoken many times about the fact he could never remarry if his wife dies (their children are grown). I have a number of friends, formerly classmates of mine, currently in formation locally for the permanent deaconate. When they are discerning it's made known to them that once they are ordained marriage is not an option except in the most unusual circumstances (read: a man widowed with young children) and even then that requires dispensation from Rome and has other considerations, see Dispensation for remarriage #75. of the National Directory for the Formation, Ministry and Life of Permanent Deacons in the United States. [nccbuscc.org]

I contacted a deacon who blogs nationally and he responded "Well, off hand I know of only one deacon in Brooklyn who has remarried, and he had to get a special dispensation from Rome. He was able to do it because he had young children. To my knowledge, it's still exceptional, and rare, not routine."

In the National Directory for the Formation, Ministry and Life of Permanent Deacons in the United States "The Deacon in his State of Life" begins with #66, the Widowed Deacon #73, Dispensation for remarriage #75.

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I never said that a dispensation was not needed, only that it had become routine. According to a Deacon Scott Dodge from Utah, writing on the blog Abitadeacon [abitadeacon.blogspot.com]:

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In 1997, the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, at the behest of Pope John Paul II, set forth three conditions under which a dispensation from the impediment of holy orders for a widowed permanent deacon to remarry would be considered: "1) the great and proven usefulness of the ministry of deacon to the diocese to which he belongs; 2) the fact that he has children of such a tender age as to be in need of motherly care; 3) the fact that he has parents or parents-in-law who are elderly and in need of care" (from New Commentary on the Code of Canon Law, pgs. 358-9).

Though Deacon Scott says such dispensation to remarry is not issued routinely, in cases where the three conditions pertain, it is generally granted, hence it is routine. The only exception to the exception appears to be deacons who have divorced, even if the marriage is annulled, though even here Deacon Scott acknowledges that permission might be granted if one of the three rules applies.

Since there is no shortage of deacons in the Latin Church, and since the diaconate is not a paid position, I really don't understand why these exceptions are needed at all. A deacon who wishes to remarry can return to the lay state. It's not like he would be losing his livelihood by so doing (which is the case with presbyters).

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Originally Posted by likethethief
We have a permanent deacon in my Latin parish (who was ordained in CN before moving here). He has spoken many times about the fact he could never remarry if his wife dies (their children are grown).

This was an issue raised by one of the then-candidates in some reflections he presented--could he live without remarriage if something happened to his wife?

I kind of let it pass at the time, but it was one of those things that percolated for years.

I don't think I could, and taking vows that I know I'd ask to be exempted from if they ever applied just doesn't seem right.

In any event, the classes just cycled, and it's two years until the next start in our eparchy. (But I'm not convinced that I'm called to the diaconate, anyway. I think it was presbyterate, and I didn't put pieces together in time [by decades]).

Maybe I'm just supposed to help endow scholarships & housing for other married men. But this is the wrong thread for that, anyway.

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It seems that the Melbourne Eparchy has already started with girls serving. They were noted in photos of the First Communions (yes they still have them & they are awful) at the cathedral. This was confirmed during the announcements in the church I attend on Sunday when it was mentioned that they had girls serving in Melbourne. I dont know if this means the local church will follow them and introduce girls as well. I am not surprised the Eparchy is stuck with heaps of Latinisms. They could never have a concelebration with an Orthodox priest, as neither party would know what the other party was doing. I recently saw an article on the Chelm Eparchy off this site, that mneioned how bad things had gotten there and could not help but think not much has changed, as a good deal of that still goes on over here.

cool

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I do not understand why Eastern Catholics do things like this. On the one hand, we say that we share everything that the Orthodox have but are in union with Rome. We claim that there is no real difference between us except for our being in communion with the Patriarch of Rome. Yet, in practice, we are constantly doing and saying things that prove otherwise. It is no wonder that neither the Latins nor the Orthodox take us seriously. This hurts our ability to evangelize and bring people to the knowledge of Our Lord and His Church. We have a great treasure to offer to people, and yet, we shoot ourselves in the foot and become our own worst enemies.

Only when we have completely embraced Holy Tradition on all levels will we be truly accepted by both groups, but until then, I fear we will be seen as pretenders, not really fitting in anywhere.

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