www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Who am I - Latin or Ukrainian Catholic

Ok so that sounds like a dumb question I should know right? Well for the last 17 years I have considered myself a Ukrainian Catholic. I was baptized Roman Catholic but married into the Ukrainian Church. I was talking to a friend today about some of the different dates for Holy Days and such and they told me that under Canon Law I was suppose to follow the Roman calandar as I never recieved permission to change rites. I distinctly remember being told that I didn't have to do anything to become a Ukrainian Catholic because we are in communion with the Holy See and are Catholic. Is this a big deal???? And who am I - Roman Catholic or Ukrainian Catholic? Thanks for the help!

I think it depends whether you are a man or a woman!
If I understand this correctly, a woman takes her husband's rite.

This is something you can ask your priest about. But it isn't something to worry about. You haven't done anything wrong if you have kept the practices of the Ukrainian rite, even if you are actually Roman rite. After all, you can't sin by making a mistake about a regulation you didn't know about. And marriage is considered a good reason for switching, if you choose to do so.

I am a woman - and that was what I thought. I know my brother-in-law (married my husband's sister) had to go to some sort of class (before my entrance into the family) but I think he was Christian in spirit, but not affiliated with any organized church.

That is a good idea to talk to a priest (not mine - he doesn't like to return calls or hang around after liturgy) but I am friendly with a former pastor, I may just make a visit to his parish!

Moekurm,

I'd welcome you to the forum but see you've been a long-time member - just not a poster - so, welcome to posting.

Actually, a woman does not automatically 'take the Rite' (correctly, 'transfer to the Church sui iuris') of her husband - but she does have the right to do so.

You had no requirement to do so and you could have and still could, as a Latin Catholic, worship with and participate in the worship of any Catholic Church sui iuris, without canonically transferring from one Church to the other.

As a Latin Catholic woman prior to your marriage, under Canon Law, you have the right (but were not required), upon marriage or at any time during the marriage, to canonically transfer to the Church sui iuris of your husband. On the termination of your marriage, by death or otherwise, you have the right (but are not required) to revert to the Latin Church. No formal action was required for you make this choice of transfer (although the Latin Code expresses a preference for a declaration to be made); it is desirable that it be noted in the Sacramental Register entry for the marriage (which you can have done now, should you choose).

So, you are whichever you choose to be and your post suggests that to be a Ukrainian Catholic.

Many years,

Neil

The relevant canons:

Canon 33 of the Oriental (Eastern) Code


Canon 112 of the Latin Code



Many years,

Neil

I do have to say, that as an Orthodox Christian, I really find all of these legalisms and barriers as being hard to understand. I often wonder how we would deal with such differences if there ever were a reuniting of East and West. (Not to mention that I instinctively read them as placing the Eastern Catholic Churches as somehow not being on an equal footing with the Latin Church. Perhaps that is an emotionally driven observation based upon my own background, but even among those of us who are inclined to seek common ground, it remains troubling.)

SIGHHHH

So the man is a sort of full-service operator--like we have at full-service gas stations. Cleans your windows, checks your oil and tires, but doesn't care about you or your vehicle once you're on your way. Real builder of community, this one.

SIGHHHH

Is it any wonder that about half the families I deal with don't want clergy around when they have someone pass?

BOB

DMD

Maybe the problem is that you don't have enough lawyers, canon lawyers that is. It is my impression that the number of laws a society has is directly proportional to the number of lawyers. Now this does not imply a cause and effect relationship. It seems that there is more of a synergy in which more lawyers result in more laws which results in more lawyers ad infinum. If the Orthodox can provide these folks with a good living I am sure some would convert and very soon you would have your own set of legal minutia that would rival that of the Latin Church.

The East can be pretty good with obfuscation without them! lol

I know - I have Roman friends who give me a hardtime because I was raised "Catholic" - once a Catholic always a Catholic - and then my Ukrainian Catholic friends and family (oh and by the way it took the members of my parish almost 11 years to accept me into the community - I was always Joe's Roman wife! - then I had my daughter and now I'm in like flynn!)give me a hard time if I inadverntly doing or saying something that is Latin Rite in thinking - it is really very sad because we are all worshiping and loving the same God and Saviour - just in our own unique ways!
My understanding of the distrust is that in the past the Latin Church was actively seeking to "steal" whole church communities to their rite as where some of the Orthodox churches (espcially in Eastern Europe).
I embrace my husbands Church as if is my own, made the conscious decision to raise my daughter Ukrainian Catholic I must admit however, do to limited Liturgy Schedules at our Parish - I do in a pinch attend the local Latin Rite Church, but everytime I do I long to be home - at Holy Ghost Ukrainian Catholic Church!

in his defense (somewhat at least) he is pastor of two parishes - although they are not far apart (about 20 minutes or so). But we do get the feeling that he loves them more then us... Our Church is located in not so nice a neigbborhood anymore and we are small and struggling, but in the past we have had vibrant active priests and the parish comes back to life. It is amazing how the priests attitude toward the parish affects parish life.

Moekurm:

Christ is in our midst!!

Okay, that does change the equation. But it still seems to me that the man needs to support your parish and encourage the members. You're as much a part of the Body of Christ as his other parish.

Maybe this is why I get so many people in my office who, on planning their funerals, ask that specific instructions be left to their survivors NOT to include any clergy.

Bob

Don't feel too bad, if your husband had been Ukrainian Orthodox instead and you embraced your husbands Church in the same manner, I suspect that, human nature being what it is, you would still be "Joe's Roman wife!" (and 'in like Flynn...') Hang in there!