The Byzantine Forum
Newest Members
fslobodzian, ArchibaldHeidenr, Fernholz, EasternLight, AthosEnjoyer
6,167 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
1 members (EastCatholic), 225 guests, and 95 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Latest Photos
St. Sharbel Maronite Mission El Paso
St. Sharbel Maronite Mission El Paso
by orthodoxsinner2, September 30
Holy Saturday from Kirkland Lake
Holy Saturday from Kirkland Lake
by Veronica.H, April 24
Byzantine Catholic Outreach of Iowa
Exterior of Holy Angels Byzantine Catholic Parish
Church of St Cyril of Turau & All Patron Saints of Belarus
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics35,515
Posts417,582
Members6,167
Most Online4,112
Mar 25th, 2025
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#353257 09/20/10 04:47 AM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 55
L
Member
Member
L Offline
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 55
What if any does the idea of "Doctors of the Church" have on Byzantine or other eastern traditions. As far as I know the title does not exist in eastern churches, and many of the doctors are western saints with western theological promulgations. The closest thing I can think of are the Three Holy Hierarchs in honor and sanctity of teaching. I would appreciate all of your input. Thanks in advance!


Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 7
Junior Member
Junior Member
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 7
Well, the Doctors of the Church, are, well, the doctors of the church. This includes the whole church, both east and west. I don't know about the Orthodox, though. smile God Bless!



Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
Likes: 3
S
Member
Member
S Offline
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
Likes: 3
Actually, it's a Latin title, which, while applied to some of the Fathers, is also applied to a number of second millennium Latin theologians whose views are not entirely consistent with the perspectives of the Eastern Churches. So, while we honor, venerate and learn from those Fathers who are also Doctors, in general we do not pay that much attention to the Doctors who are not Fathers.

Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 55
L
Member
Member
L Offline
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 55
I agree with your view Stuart, but in arguing that position to Latin Catholics, they are taken aback and push that Doctors are for the WHOLE CHURCH. Not only with this, but there is confusion that a Church can have things peculiar to only one Rite, even if it is the biggest. They often cite the inclusion of Eastern Fathers in the Doctors, but I think my best retort is where are the Armenian Fathers (Some of which are unique only to the Armenians).

Have you encountered this?

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
Likes: 3
S
Member
Member
S Offline
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
Likes: 3
Quote
Have you encountered this?

Haven't we all?

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 37
J
Member
Member
J Offline
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 37
It is my understanding that "Doctor of the Church" is primarily a liturgical distinction. Example: Ignatius of Antioch is NOT a doctor of the church because he is a martyr, and martyrdom takes precedence. Essentially it is class of saints, with their own common, proper antiphons, readings, etc.

As such, I'm not really sure it has a meaning for us Byzantines, beyond the point of the title indicating that the writings and teachings of these saints are considered important by the Latin Church.

It certainly isn't an exclusive list of great theologians, even from a Latin perspective as is witnessed by the omission of Ignatius of Antioch.

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,405
L
Member
Member
L Offline
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,405
The title of "Doctor of the Church" was introduced by Pope Boniface VIII in 1298, when it was bestowed on the four great Western Fathers of the Church, St. Gregory the Great ("Dialogus"), St. Ambrose, St. Augustine, and St. Jerome. Their feasts were given the rank of duplex in the Roman Calendar and took precedence over ordinary semiduplex Sundays.

In 1568, the Dominican Pope St. Pius V added the four great Eastern Fathers, St. John Chrystostom, St. Basil the Great, St. Gregory of Nazianzus, and St. Athanasius, as well as St. Thomas Aquinas.

Since then, there has been a proliferation of Doctors of the Church. Feasts of Doctors of the Church now rank as memoriæ and no longer outrank ordinary Sundays, but there is a special Common of Doctors in the Liturgy of the Hours. I like the Magnificat antiphon for Doctors of the Church: "O Doctor optime, Ecclesiæ sanctæ lumen, beate N., divinæ legis amator, deprecare pro nobis Filium Dei."

Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 695
H
Member
Member
H Offline
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 695
I guess the short answer is that we don't have "Doctors of the Church" as a category, but if the Latin church wants to give this title to some of its saints, well that is their business. And if they want to put this title on to our saints, well...we can't stop them I suppose. Neither is it a "deal breaker".

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 65
M
Member
Member
M Offline
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 65
Isn't it true that in the Eastern Churches, the age of the Fathers has never closed? It seems to me that there are Doctors of the Church in the East also, but we call them Fathers of the Church while the West had to begin to call its new Fathers of the Church Doctors of the Church because it claims that the time of the Fathers is over.

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,042
novice O.Carm.
Member
novice O.Carm.
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,042
Originally Posted by Latin Catholic
The title of "Doctor of the Church" was introduced by Pope Boniface VIII in 1298, when it was bestowed on the four great Western Fathers of the Church, St. Gregory the Great ("Dialogus"), St. Ambrose, St. Augustine, and St. Jerome. Their feasts were given the rank of duplex in the Roman Calendar and took precedence over ordinary semiduplex Sundays.

In 1568, the Dominican Pope St. Pius V added the four great Eastern Fathers, St. John Chrystostom, St. Basil the Great, St. Gregory of Nazianzus, and St. Athanasius, as well as St. Thomas Aquinas.

Since then, there has been a proliferation of Doctors of the Church. Feasts of Doctors of the Church now rank as memoriæ and no longer outrank ordinary Sundays, but there is a special Common of Doctors in the Liturgy of the Hours. I like the Magnificat antiphon for Doctors of the Church: "O Doctor optime, Ecclesiæ sanctæ lumen, beate N., divinæ legis amator, deprecare pro nobis Filium Dei."

The Roman Missal also contains a common for Doctors of the Church.

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 7
P
Junior Member
Junior Member
P Offline
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 7
The Orthodox give the title "Doctor of the Church" to St. Gregory Palamas, and while he isn't one of the 33 "Doctors of the Church" commemorated liturgically by the Roman Rite (and we don't use the term "doctor" liturgically anyway), I don't see any reason why we shouldn't use that term for him ourselves.

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 65
M
Member
Member
M Offline
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 65
Originally Posted by Peregrinu
The Orthodox give the title "Doctor of the Church" to St. Gregory Palamas, and while he isn't one of the 33 "Doctors of the Church" commemorated liturgically by the Roman Rite (and we don't use the term "doctor" liturgically anyway), I don't see any reason why we shouldn't use that term for him ourselves.

Excellent point, Peregrinu. I completely agree.

St. Gregory Palamas, intercede for us!

Many blessings,
Scott

Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 55
L
Member
Member
L Offline
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 55
Thanks for all the help.

I tried searching up for documentation regarding Palamas being called a Doctor by the Russians but I could not come up with anything. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated!



Moderated by  Irish Melkite 

Link Copied to Clipboard
The Byzantine Forum provides message boards for discussions focusing on Eastern Christianity (though discussions of other topics are welcome). The views expressed herein are those of the participants and may or may not reflect the teachings of the Byzantine Catholic or any other Church. The Byzantine Forum and the www.byzcath.org site exist to help build up the Church but are unofficial, have no connection with any Church entity, and should not be looked to as a source for official information for any Church. All posts become property of byzcath.org. Contents copyright - 1996-2024 (Forum 1998-2024). All rights reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 8.0.0