The Byzantine Forum
Newest Members
Jayce, Fr. Abraham, AnonymousMan115, violet7488, HopefulOlivia
6,182 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 579 guests, and 111 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Latest Photos
St. Sharbel Maronite Mission El Paso
St. Sharbel Maronite Mission El Paso
by orthodoxsinner2, September 30
Holy Saturday from Kirkland Lake
Holy Saturday from Kirkland Lake
by Veronica.H, April 24
Byzantine Catholic Outreach of Iowa
Exterior of Holy Angels Byzantine Catholic Parish
Church of St Cyril of Turau & All Patron Saints of Belarus
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics35,530
Posts417,670
Members6,182
Most Online4,112
Mar 25th, 2025
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 3 of 3 1 2 3
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,132
M
Member
Member
M Offline
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,132
Originally Posted by jjp
Originally Posted by DMD
while autonomous literally means "self-legislated", or a law unto itself. Nomos (νόμος) is the Greek for "law'.[/i]

Can Eastern Catholics then technically be considered autonomous if our "cannon law" wasn't self-created?
The EEOC is a general Canon law for the Eastern and Oriental Catholic Churches. This does not abrogate the fact that Eastern and Catholic hierarchs can formulate their own particular laws. If you read the EEOC, you will note that it often makes oblique references to the particular laws of the particular (i.e., sui juris) Churches.

Blessings,
Marduk

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,132
M
Member
Member
M Offline
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,132
Dear brother Neil,

Originally Posted by Irish Melkite
Both John and David make valid points and I have no disagreement with either. I would note, however, that as regards the EP (and the MP and other EO and OO Patriarchates, for that matter), any issue between them and their Church's jurisdictions in the diaspora is still within the confines of the single Church that is involved.

In the case of the EC and OC, the Pope - formerly also the Patriarch of the West, though HH has declared that he will no longer use that title - is acting with regard to the jurisdictions and incumbents of Churches, albeit Catholic ones, other than his own Latin Church. And, there is the point of difference. The EP and others are acting as regards jurisdictions and hierarchs who are of their own patriarchate.
MS,

I'm working on a more detailed reply to the specific question ('Why?') that you asked of me before the forum went on vacation. Should post it tonight.

I'm not sure how to view the comments on this particular matter. If what is being expressed is concern for the sake of good Church order in local territories, then I can agree. But if what is being expresed is criticism of the Pope, then I definitely don't agree. I see it a bit differently. The prerogative to supply a bishop of a patricular Tradition in the traditional territory of a bishop of another particular Tradition belongs to the Supreme authority - either the Ecumenical Council or the Pope.

So it's not the case that the Patriarch of the Latins is involved in the selection of Eastern and Oriental bishops in his Traditional territory, whereas Eastern and Oriental Patriarchs are not involved in the selection of Latin bishops in their own Traditional territory. It is simply that it is not within the natural historic competence of Patriarchs to be able to supply a bishop of a different Tradition in his own territory. As stated, only the supreme authority of the Church is competent (i.e., has the prerogative) to do this. That the Patriarch of the Latins is at once the Pope as well is of corollary importance.

The fact is, there is no model for this exigency (the idea of "ritual jurisdiction" within territorial jurisdiction) in the early Church, but it is a reality that has developed in the Catholic Communion (and to a lesser extent in the Oriental Orthodox Communion).

Of course, this can change. And I think this is what the Middle Eastern bishops have expressed during the recent Synod.

Blessings,
Marduk

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,132
M
Member
Member
M Offline
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,132
I would like to add that the only particular Church that seems to reflect the first millenium standard on the matter is the Ethiopian Catholic Church. There, the Latin Catholics are under the omophor of the local Oriental hierarch. The Latin Catholic Church in "diaspora" territories used to reflect this standard, but the (bad) experience of Eastern Catholics in North America -being under the omophor of antagonistic local Latin hierarchs - changed the situation.

Blessings,
Marduk

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,431
Member
Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,431
Hi all.

Quote
The prerogative to supply a bishop of a patricular Tradition in the traditional territory of a bishop of another particular Tradition belongs to the Supreme authority - either the Ecumenical Council or the Pope.

I've often wondered why this point isn't brought up more in these discussions.

Think about it: let's say Patriarch X has an eparchy in the territory of Patriarch Y. Then whenever it's time to appoint a new bishop for that eparchy, Patriarch X should expect interference ... not from Patriarch Y, but rather from Rome. (I don't know the precise language, but that seems to be the gist of it. Perhaps someone with greater expertise could refine what I have said here.)

Page 3 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  Irish Melkite 

Link Copied to Clipboard
The Byzantine Forum provides message boards for discussions focusing on Eastern Christianity (though discussions of other topics are welcome). The views expressed herein are those of the participants and may or may not reflect the teachings of the Byzantine Catholic or any other Church. The Byzantine Forum and the www.byzcath.org site exist to help build up the Church but are unofficial, have no connection with any Church entity, and should not be looked to as a source for official information for any Church. All posts become property of byzcath.org. Contents copyright - 1996-2024 (Forum 1998-2024). All rights reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 8.0.0