www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Catholic 2010 Lay Orthodox Survey on Attitudes Toward Reunion

I don't think anyone is finding new things. Discussion naturally focuses on the differences, because there is something to discuss there. Whereas recounting similarities leaves little to discuss.

My wife is also a RC and I am a LCMS in RCIA. I am not sure if I will be RC or EC, but I think that reunification would be a wonderful thing. I also agree that inter-communion would help. I also think that this would help get people at the grass roots to visit other churches to mingle. As far as how can we get RC more informed I believe that we need RC Priests to actually abide with the teachings of ORIENTALES ECCLESIAS and instruct the parishes so that they understand. The above being said by a Lutheran who has read it on his own, when most RC's have zero idea of the existance of even Humanae Vitea because of either laziness or cowardice of many Priest means we will have an uphill climb. A lot of Priest won't even discuss contraception due to a fear of offending someone that is using. I suspect many Priest just don't care what the Vatican has to say on certain subjects. This again is just my opinion, but it sure seems to be present at the parishes I have attended over the past 13 years......

Communion is connected to all the other sacraments and is not a matter simply of receipt, but of preparation for reception. That's one of the reasons inter-communion is not practiced.

I recently revisited the Filioque controversy for an adult study group. The one thing that deeply impressed me was that this whole issue was a non-issue for hundreds of years. When it became an issue, it was seized upon by those seeking and promoting disunity.
Among my Orthodox friends, the filioque is basically seen as a "papal" matter - as in, who is the pope to change the Symbol? -rather than as a matter of theological substance. Of course, no pope inserted the filioque. Constantinople, however, did add substantially to Nicaea. And the Armenians REALLY added to the Symbol. Also, Constantinople's decree was that no man was ever to change the "Faith," not particularly the wording of the Creed.
Talk of the terrible Crusader pillaging of Constantinople is rarely preceded by discussion of the slaughter of the Latins in that city at a prior date. But, lest I be divisive, my point is that for people or groups who wish to be entrenched, any excuse will do.
I see this also among some anti-Latin Byzantine Catholics. Once I overheard someone ask "What time is your Mass?" and the Byzantine deacon responding answered "Do you mean the DIVINE LITURGY?" - correctness trumping courtesy, not to mention failure to answer the simple question, and possibly turning that visitor off forever.
Nor are the Latins immune. I have an occasional visitor in my parish who hands out little fliers "proving" the error of Catholics who venerate Orthodox saints.
Except for the vast expenses of Russia, Ukraine, and some of the Balkans, Eastern Christian are a small minority. Most RC's, Protestants and secular society at large don't notice us much.

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That, of course, was precipitated by the Norman suppression of the Byzantine Churches in Sicily and Calabria. There is blame enough to go around.

Except when it is.

You are correct, I should have said is not practiced except as a matter of individual ekonomia. There is no systematic or fixed understanding of sacramental sharing which is what I really meant.

On the other hand, warmly welcoming visitors . . .

Today Father announced that an unnamed visitor had been overwhelmed byt the friendliness & hospitality, and donated an icon--a six foot tall outdoor icon of our namesake, St. Gabriel.

Whoever that visitor was will certainly come again on his next pass through town, and is indubitably happily telling others about his welcome.

hawk

I believe that there are two theological issues which could keep us separated for centuries to come - Primacy and infallibility.

I do not believe the Pope is ready for unity. He is not yet able to accept that he will be subject to Church Councils as is every bishop and he is not ready to accept that he will be one bishop with one vote, again just as all other bishops. He requires more time.

Unus episcopus unum suffragium

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1182 - riots and mayhem... Italians fighting Italians in Constantinople, Venetians against Pisans against Genoans, and then the Greeks taking up the fight.... all about big business and profits and greed.

It is not as if the Italians were unaccustomed to periodic slaughter in Constantinople. It was always the Italian groups slaughtering other Italian groups in the city - Italians from Pisa and Venice and Genoa slaughtering each other's colonies. It was the Greek army which had to come in and put a halt to these slaughters.

So, no, it was not justified for the Greeks to slaughter Italians but there is no denying that such inter-Italian events were not uncommon.

Constantinople was never a very quiet place, even without Italians. Urban life in the Roman East was raucus at the best of times, and rioting seems to have been a common passtime (no internet, you know). Alexandria was notorious for mob violence (a lot of it Christian sectarian), while Theodosius the Great got in trouble with Ambrose of Milan for butchering 7000 citizens of Thessalonica in retaliation for their murder of his tax collectors (after religion, taxes were a leading cause of riots). Finally, there were the Nika riots under Justinian the Great (taxes, again!), in which more than 20,000 were slain and half of Constantinople burned to the ground.

I think you are correct.

"3) How can we get people excited about this topic and breakdown the ignorance about each other?"

I am some what active in the Pro-Life movement. I can't tell you how hard it has been (actually impossible) to get Orthodox Churches in my area to do ANYTHING for the Pro-Life movement. This also include the local Coptic Church. I have met with Priest after Priest and Laity after Laity. Still no one shows up at any events. What does this have to do with your question?

Well, I think when Churches work together on issues such as Pro-Life the barriers between us seem to come down as well. I have seen this with the Protestant Churches. Exchanges are made and theology is discussed. What ends up happening (at least I have experienced this) is the discussions tend to end up with, "they aren't so different after all."

So, the way I see it to get the Churches together we need to start to work together on a multitude of issues. This is NOT ecumenism but simple Christian charity.

This is my two cents for what its worth.

Let the flames begin.

I will agree with JimG and Ray (as posted above). Although Orthodox Teaching does not allow for Orthodox to partake of the Eucharist in Catholic Churches, Catholic Teaching does allow it (while asking the Orthodox to follow the discipline of their Church). The effect is that many Orthodox do join and belong to Roman Catholic parishes. This is especially common in mixed marriages (where the Orthodox Church is often seen as the ethnic Church and the Roman Catholic as the American Church). And anyone who has read the blurb in the missalette that welcomes the Orthodox, Polish National and Assyrian Church members (and probably a few others) to Eucharist.

I remember when the statement of who can partake of the Eucharist was debated by the bishops (probably 20 years ago now). The question had arisen from the parishes. The pastors were asking for guidance because they did not know how to treat the members of these Churches.

The effect of the whole thing is that few in Roman Catholicism see any obstacles whatsoever to communion. In the long run is is not something on their radar. That goes with being the a billion member Church. Even if you lump all Orthodox and Eastern Catholic together they still outnumber us about 60 0r 70 to 1 in the United States.

"The few, the proud. . . "