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I would be very interested to hear about your journey. I will send a private message as soon as I am able. Thank you.
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I must also suggest praying to the first Exarch of the Russian Byzantine Catholic Church, Blessed Leonid Feodorov. That is the plan: I am currently trying to get an Icon of Blessed Leonid.
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Glory to Jesus Christ! Welcome to this wonderful Forum. I am particularly drawn to the eastern liturgy, but I am also convinced of papal primacy (if not supremacy)...
I believe it is vitally important for a person and his/her family both spiritually and sacramentally to be a member of a church/parish in order to nurture and develop his/her faith. Fortunately where I live, I am able to go to a Latin Tridentine Mass, a Byzantine (Ruthenian) Liturgy, and a Russian Orthodox Liturgy, so I alternate going to each one. I am not, however, able to go to a Russian Byzantine Catholic Church. My spouse is (and so far will be nothing but) Russian Orthodox. My children were baptized Roman Catholic but are still very young. If we go to the Russian Orthodox Liturgy, neither I nor my children can receive Communion. If we go to the Roman Mass or Byzantine Liturgy, my wife cannot receive Communion. I'm glad to hear that you are welcomed at the Russian Orthodox parish. I am in a Russian Catholic parish, but we are a VERY tiny parish of commuters and are not able to have some services. A number of us, including myself, go to several of the Russian Orthodox parishes for these other services and, thanks be to God, we have been given a friendly welcome in these Orthodox parishes. Personally I would be a very different Catholic if Divine Liturgy on Sunday was the only time I was worshiping in community. My concern about what you describe is about your taking turns in Latin Church services. I appreciate that this is your heritage. But as a family I am concerned with combining the East and West. There are significant differences East and West, not only very different spirituality but the Latin Church and the East are on different calendars. And I don't mean just for Pascha but on any given day we are recalling different saints and we have different readings, and we have a very different focus on those feasts that do come on the same day, such as Epiphany/Theophany. I come from the Latin Church. I am part of the RCIA team in a Latin parish, I was trained by the Latin Diocese as a catechist. I often go to Holy Mass at the local Dominican Priory and in the parish where I'm a catechist. But in my devotions I follow the calendar including the fasts and feasts of my Eastern Catholic parish, and there are times when this is a real challenge. I wouldn't want to have children trying to combine these by rotating week to week where they worship. That doesn't mean you couldn't go to the Latin Church with your parents and your family from time to time. I would myself agree with the suggestion that you meet with the Ruthenian priest. I'd be surprised if there aren't other Latin Catholics and mixed Latin+ECC marriages, maybe other Catholic+Orthodox marriages in that parish. It's really important you are taking this seriously now while your children are still very young. I wonder what kind of counseling you received from both the Catholic and the Orthodox when you were involved in your marriage preparation. Were there people then who seemed especially sensitive to the challenges you would be facing and might be of some help now? I know there are other Catholic+Orthodox couples on this Forum who hopefully will share their wisdom. Again, welcome. It's comforting to know that I am not alone! When my wife and I were preparing for marriage, my wife was "fresh off the boat" so to say and had lived most of her life in the soviet era with little Orthodox upbringing. When we were married in the Catholic Church, she agreed (being of little faith at the time and therefore of little understanding of the potential Orthodox-Catholic predicament, and therfore the reason I saw no problem) to have our children Baptized and raised as Catholics. To her credit she has since become much closer to her baptismal faith, has become much more of a practicing Russian Orthodox, and is very understanding of the resulting rift that has recently developed. Thankfully the Russian Orthodox priest is supportive of our efforts (with hopes I'm sure that I and my children will ultimately become Russian Orthodox) and welcomes both me and my children into his parish. Of course, neither I nor my children can receive Sacraments at the Russsian Orthodox parish, and my wife is forbidden to receive Sacraments at a Catholic church. It is for these reasons that I am inquiring into the feasibility of my becoming/practicing as a Russian Byzantine Catholic: my hope is to encourage her development in the Orthodox faith (since I am convinced it is a legitimate Apostolic faith/rite) while at the same time retaining my allegiance to Rome. Tall order, I know.
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rimlyanin:
Christ is in our midst!!
Our brethren have brought a lot of sound advice to your questions and concerns. I, too, have wondered about your marriage preparation because this is a big area that is usually discussed in depth when people of different Churches come together. Usually the Catholic can ask for a dispensation to have the Crowning in the Orthodox Church so that the Orthodox member can still receive communion. You don't say what the circumstances were.
Having had your children baptised in the Catholic Church, I wonder about the Orthodox priest's response to your wife's promises that all children would be baptised in the Orthodox Church--usually a requirement in the marriage prep time.
But my brethren here have come together on the point that you need to get together with your spouse and get some sound advice from her and your spiritual advisors.
MOST importantly, however, is that you are praying together in your domestic church, your home. If there is no foundation in this critical area, you run the risk of building the house on sand.
You have to understand, too, that this is not a choice of chocolate and vanilla. There are very real differences in the choices that you make. You must be sure that you pray about all this so that consciences are not compromised and faith weakened.
In Christ,
Bob Thank you...I will take your suggestions to heart. (Please see my previous response regarding my marriage, preparation, etc.)
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rimlyanin:
When you reply with a quote, please select the quotation marks on the bar and place the quote between them. You've got a couple posts that seem run together becaues of your attempts to quote others.
Bob
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Just trying to ease your life. 
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I have rather enjoyed going to the Ruthenian Liturgy. Very little Church Slavonic is used, but they appear to be quite open to various Byzantine Rites. However, that (or any Catholic) church/parish is out of the question for my wife: She is forbidden by the Russian Orthodox Church to receive Sacraments, regardless (or maybe in spite of :/) Catholic Canon, and any eastern european non-orthodox church does not sit well with a person from Russia. I don't want to side track your thread but I do want to point out that the Code of Canons of Oriental Churches with respect to the licitity of a Catholic priest administering Holy Eucharist to Orthodox faithul says: CCEO 671 [ intratext.com] ยง3. Likewise Catholic ministers licitly administer the sacraments of penance, the Eucharist and anointing of the sick to Christian faithful of Eastern Churches, who do not have full communion with the Catholic Church, if they ask for them on their own and are properly disposed. This holds also for the Christian faithful of other Churches, who according to the judgment of the Apostolic See, are in the same condition as the Eastern Churches as far as the sacraments are concerned... ยง5. For the cases in ยง2, ยง3 and ยง4, norms of particular law are to be enacted only after consultation with at least the local competent authority of the non-Catholic Church or ecclesial community concerned ("non-Catholic Church or ecclesial community" = Orthodox) The canon both requires that any Orthodox presenting themselves for the sacrament "ask for them on their own and are properly disposed" and that the sacrament be administered only after "consultation with at least the local competent authority" of the appropriate Orthodox Church. A priest offering Eucharist to any Orthodox without following all parts of that canon does so illicitly. The code would appear to be written in order to provide for licit sharing of Eucharist but with due concern for fully respecting the appropriate Orthodox authority over their own faithful. I'm not sure if her priest has forbidden her to attend a Catholic Church. We have Orthodox visitors at our Eastern Catholic parish for Divine Liturgy, and they don't present themselves for Eucharist. I'm typically in an Orthodox Church for services other than Divine Liturgy where Eucharist is not an issue. However, I have been at Divine Liturgy plenty of times and I do not present myself for Eucharist. Personally this is not troubling for me. There are sometimes others there (who are Orthodox) who are not disposed to receive. At the Orthodox parish where I most often go I did ask the priest if he would prefer that I leave at the end of the Liturgy of the Catechumens and not remain for the Liturgy of the Faithful and he said no. I happened to be there one night when the Mystery of Holy Unction was offered. I hadn't known this was on the calendar. I did not present myself for this Mystery. At other times when blessing with oil is offered at the end of a feastal Liturgy I do go up for that blessing. Finding my way in this Orthodox parish as a Catholic has required me to be more assertive than my introverted personality would prefer. I "forced" myself to introduce myself to the pastor immediately and to go to him, the deacon and their wives and other parishioners with questions, rather than sitting back and wondering if I was offending in some way. This has been intimidating for me but the benefits have been immeasurable! It's also been important to me to be able to go for work days when I can give back beyond $ to this parish which has given me so much. This has also allowed me to come to know members of the parish and for them to know me. You are going on Sundays so you have that option after DL. I'm never at an Orthodox parish on a Sunday, and typically the services I am there for are at night so everyone goes home right afterward. Our Churches are not in communion and we sadly live with this reality today. You seem to be in an area where both the Russian Orthodox priest and the Ruthenian priest are welcoming of your family. My own opinion on this is that it is a blessing. These priests are likely to be helpful to you in the choices you face.
Last edited by likethethief; 01/26/11 04:26 PM.
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I don't want to side track your thread but I do want to point out that the Code of Canons of Oriental Churches with respect to the licitity of a Catholic priest administering Holy Eucharist to Orthodox faithul says: CCEO 671 [ intratext.com] ยง3. Likewise Catholic ministers licitly administer the sacraments of penance, the Eucharist and anointing of the sick to Christian faithful of Eastern Churches, who do not have full communion with the Catholic Church, if they ask for them on their own and are properly disposed. This holds also for the Christian faithful of other Churches, who according to the judgment of the Apostolic See, are in the same condition as the Eastern Churches as far as the sacraments are concerned... ยง5. For the cases in ยง2, ยง3 and ยง4, norms of particular law are to be enacted only after consultation with at least the local competent authority of the non-Catholic Church or ecclesial community concerned ("non-Catholic Church or ecclesial community" = Orthodox) The canon both requires that any Orthodox presenting themselves for the sacrament "ask for them on their own and are properly disposed" and that the sacrament be administered only after "consultation with at least the local competent authority" of the appropriate Orthodox Church. A priest offering Eucharist to any Orthodox without following all parts of that canon does so illicitly. The code would appear to be written in order to provide for licit sharing of Eucharist but with due concern for fully respecting the appropriate Orthodox authority over their own faithful. Mary Louise, Actually, CCEO Canon 671 has almost no effect as to licity of the Mystery. In particular, ยง5 of the Canon has applicability not to administration of the Mystery by an individual priest, but to the enactment of Particular Law by any of the Churches sui iuris with respect to affording the Mysteries to members of the Apostolic Churches not in communion with Rome (the EO, OO, Assyrian Church, ACOE, the Indian counterparts of the two latter, and the PNCC). It is the EC and OC Churches which are advised thereby to not enact Particular Law on these matters without having consulted with the competent authority/hierarchy of any Apostolic Church to whose faithful it is considering offering the Mysteries. There is no obligation on the individual priest, under the Canon cited, to consult with the Orthodox hierarchy or to determine anything other than the person presenting himself or herself to receive the Mystery is freely asking to do so. The onus as to whether one is properly disposed is on the individual who presents, as no one else can determine the state of their soul and disposition. That said, the relevant text in the missalettes/bulletins and as reiterated by the USCCB is to recommend that any Orthodox faithful who are considering presenting to receive the Mysteries adhere to the instructions of their own hierarchs as to whether it is proper and acceptable for them to do so. Again, however, that decision rests with the individual and has nothing to do with the licity (from the Catholic standpoint) of any Mystery given. Knowing that the Orthodox Churches (except in the instance of the well-documented Pastoral Agreements involving the Assyrian, Syriac Orthodox, and Armenian Apostolic Churches, and the informal ones that exist in the Middle East) do not allow for their faithful to receive the Mysteries from Catholic clergy - Latin, Eastern, or Oriental - we do not encourage that their faithful do so, but we do not prohibit them from doing so. Many years, Neil
"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
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When you reply with a quote, please select the quotation marks on the bar and place the quote between them. You've got a couple posts that seem run together becaues of your attempts to quote others. Bob, Not sure that is going to solve the problem. The issue is that the OP is still in moderated status which, for reasons that are unclear, invariably interferes with use of almost all formatting features, unless one takes some added steps that become too difficult to explain. Many years, Neil
"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
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I'm not sure if her priest has forbidden her to attend a Catholic Church. We have Orthodox visitors at our Eastern Catholic parish for Divine Liturgy, and they don't present themselves for Eucharist. The Russian Orthodox priest of the parish we sometimes attend encourages me and my children to attend Liturgy, Vespers, etc. but forbids us from receiving any Sacraments. The priest also forbids my wife from receiving Sacraments (or at least the Eucharist) at a non-Orthodox church. The priest did, however, allow me to venerate/kiss the Kursk Root Icon when it was brought to the church! Both the Roman and Byzantine Catholic priests have no problem with my wife attending Mass/Liturgy and receiving the Sacraments.
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Mary Louise,
Actually, CCEO Canon 671 has almost no effect as to licity of the Mystery. In particular, ยง5 of the Canon has applicability not to administration of the Mystery by an individual priest, but to the enactment of Particular Law by any of the Churches sui iuris with respect to affording the Mysteries to members of the Apostolic Churches not in communion with Rome (the EO, OO, Assyrian Church, ACOE, the Indian counterparts of the two latter, and the PNCC)...
Neil Thank you for this correction, Neil. I can always rely of folks here to help get me on track.
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The Russian Orthodox priest of the parish we sometimes attend encourages me and my children to attend Liturgy, Vespers, etc. but forbids us from receiving any Sacraments. The priest also forbids my wife from receiving Sacraments (or at least the Eucharist) at a non-Orthodox church. The priest did, however, allow me to venerate/kiss the Kursk Root Icon when it was brought to the church! Both the Roman and Byzantine Catholic priests have no problem with my wife attending Mass/Liturgy and receiving the Sacraments. rimlyanin: This is standard practice in the Churches. Nothing new here. Bob
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I'm not sure if her priest has forbidden her to attend a Catholic Church. We have Orthodox visitors at our Eastern Catholic parish for Divine Liturgy, and they don't present themselves for Eucharist. The Russian Orthodox priest of the parish we sometimes attend encourages me and my children to attend Liturgy, Vespers, etc. but forbids us from receiving any Sacraments. The priest also forbids my wife from receiving Sacraments (or at least the Eucharist) at a non-Orthodox church. The priest did, however, allow me to venerate/kiss the Kursk Root Icon when it was brought to the church! Both the Roman and Byzantine Catholic priests have no problem with my wife attending Mass/Liturgy and receiving the Sacraments.I'm sure the Catholic priests feel they are being pastoral in this. My two cents is that it's most unfortunate. If these Catholic priests consulted with their brother priest in the Orthodox parish they would find as you have found that he considers this communion sharing to be completely inappropriate. I think it is the Orthodox priest who is truly being pastoral here in both what he has encouraged and what he has "forbidden". We aren't talking about the Gulag or some other isolated situation where it's impossible for the faithful to approach a priest in their own Church. I think in general relationships between our Churches are undermined when we act in ways that violate the norms of a Church. We take Communion/Eucharistic in a Church when we are "in communion". The fact that the Catholic Church considers Orthodox to have valid Holy Orders and valid Mysteries/Sacraments does not make us in communion. There is no one who would rather we were in communion than me. But today we are not.
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