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It has come up on "Excommunicated hierarch lambasts Pope Benedict" and other threads (and it's a pretty well-established fact anyhow) that there are many ECs who prefer a liturgy that is really a hybrid of Eastern and Western liturgies (e.g. a highly latinized version of the Byzantine Rite).

In view of that I'm curious: have any of you been to, or at least heard of, an EC parish that actually uses the Roman Rite, or another western rite? Not a hybrid, I mean, but truly a western rite?

Its difficult to answer your question - I've heard of a Maronite liturgy being celebrated in a Melkite Church but never really heard of a Roman Rite being celebrated in an Eastern parish.

Well, actually, we have - a funeral for an Italian parishioner of ours was held in the Roman Rite. This Italian family had been attending our Melkite parish for sometime now, and since she had a good relationship with the Melkite priests here, they celebrated his funeral Mass in the Roman Rite.

I have heard of it happening in Maronite parishes, and I have also heard this is a common practice in the Ethiopian Church..

I don't think that everyone is on the same page. I understood Peter to be asking if anyone is aware of an EC (or OC) parish which routinely serves its congregants according to the Latin Rite ...

Both Collin and Litvin are speaking of Latin Rite Masses being served on occasion in an Eastern/Oriental Catholic temple ... Nothing new or different there. It happens, not common, but it happens.

An example ... In Framingham, MA, a Syro-Malabar priest pastors St Thomas the First-Called Apostle Syro-Malabar Mission. It meets in a church that formerly served a Latin parish, but has been canonically suppressed due to parish mergers. Under an agreement between the Cardinal-Archbishop of Boston and the Syro-Malabar Eparch, the priest (who has bi-ritual Latin faculties) serves Mass weekly and otherwise affords pastoral care (imcluding the Sacraments) for the parishioners of the former Latin parish.


Peter,

I think that is a gross oversimplification and misinterpretation of the discussion on the other thread.

That there are ECs and OCs who have not in their lifetime ever known anything but a latinized Liturgy is true; however, the numbers of such have decreased markedly over the past few decades - with a few exceptions.

Most notable among the exceptions are:

• the Ukrainians, who - except in the diaspora - are still only 2 decades into having had freedom to openly worship according to the Rite and praxis of their historical Church;
• the Syro-Malabarese, whose historical liturgical heritage was abused for centuries by the Latins and who are still trying to come to grips with what it should look like (being divided among 4 variations at last account); and,
• the Maronites, who are still confounded in their struggle to obey the command to reclaim their liturgical heritage because none of them, in living memory, has ever known anything but a latinized form.

The Ethiopians, almost all of whose clergy (Ge'ez or Latin) are bi-ritual in consequence of the unique pastoral situation in their homeland, present an entirely different situation.

In Ethiopia (and Eritrea, though less commonly), a Ge'ez Rite parish may well serve two congregations - one of them being Latins. Likewise, in certain georgraphic regions (principally in Ethiopia), where Latins predominate, a Latin parish may serve both the Latin Mass and the Ùér’ata Qéddase, if there are sufficient Ge'ez Rite faithful there to be served.


This is a praxis that ceased to be when our parishes were no longer served by untrained Latin priests for lack of our own clergy. It could only be justified presently if a parish had no priest and a Latin priest without faculties were asked to afford pastoral care to it in the interim until one could be assigned.

An attempt to do so by a priest of a sui iuris Church would, at the very least, violate the Particular Law of his Church and the priest would find quickly himself in the same situation as the 'renegade' Ukrainians.

Many years,

Neil

Hi Neil.

Thanks, on all points, for the info. Very interesting stuff.


True, although in retrospect I wish I had named the thread "Western liturgy in an EC parish", or something like that, rather than "Western-rite parish", so as to include the kinds of examples that you, Collin and Litvin mentioned.

I'm curious, if you happen to know, which is numerous: the clergy in the Ethiopian Church who are bi-ritual and can also say the Latin mass, or the Latin clergy who are bi-ritual to also say the Ùér’ata Qéddase? Or is it about the same number of each?

Peter,

No way to know w/ certainty, as I'm unaware of any source for data on the numbers of priests in any Church who have bi-ritual faculties, but I would guess that the Ethiopian (Ge'ez) presbyters with Latin faculties are probably the more numerous.

If one presumes that most Ethiopian (Ge'ez) presbyters have Latin faculties - which seems to be fairly common belief - that would represent approximately 225 priests among the 3 eparchies.

The number of Latin priests in the 8 Latin Vicariates (there are no Latin dioceses in Ethiopia) - which are geographically distinct from the eparchies - is also about 200, last numbers that I saw. I think it's doubtful that anywhere near as many of them have faculties for the Ge'ez Rite, but there are probably a substantial number - particularly among religious order presbyters who previously served in the areas where the Ge'ez predominate.

None of those numbers, btw, include the 375 or so priests of the 3 Ethiopian (Ge'ez) eparchies in Eritrea. Undoubtedly, there are some priests with Latin faculties among them. (There are no Latin canonical jurisdictions in Eritrea and the number of Latin faithful is relatively minimal.)

Many years,

Neil

Thanks.