www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall "Arabic Catholic Church of the East" - A New Vagante Ecclesia

Fr Jon spotted a recent news article indicating that the "Arabic Catholic Church of the East" was purchasing land in Pottsville, PA.

After tracking down a website for this group - at http://www.arabiccatholicarchdiocese.org/, he brought it to my attention to see what I might know about them - which was nothing. Their rather extensive website, however, makes it pretty clear that they didn't just spring up overnight.

A bit of searching on the web finds that the Latin Patriarch of Jerusalem apparently brought the 'archbishop' and his 'church' to the attention of the USCCB back in 2009. A (Latin) Diocese of Cleveland Memorandum [dioceseofcleveland.org], dated 3/2009, reported:


The group is centered in New Millport PA, not exactly a metropolis - in fact, it's on the outer edge of Clearfield County and near nothing. It does have the advantage, for these folk, of having no Catholic church in town or even nearby - thus, no competition and no one to call their bluff. Of course, it's doubtful that it has any Arab population either, but the audience looks to be traditionalists (note 'Mass' in Latin, Rosary, Novenas, Healing Services). Pottsville, a good 3 hrs east, is where the 'Cathedral' is sited. There are also a few other sites in PA; Pittsburgh being the most notable.

They also claim a presence in Paterson NJ (significant Arab communities in that area), in Milford CT - near enough to the Arab communities in southeast CT, and in OH (Parma, most notably).

I bother to bring this group to our attention because I suspect that, at some point, we'll hear questions raised as to who they are, are they real, are they us. Their website is slick, it avoids a lot of the usual clues that make people suspicious, and it incorporates a lot of things that make people think 'Catholic'. Just by way of examples:

• There's no elaborate episcopal lineage
• It's replete with references to traditional devotions
• Links include one to the Vatican
• Members are named in photos - including nice Irish and Slavic names
• The text of the Mass is in English, Latin, Spanish, and Arabic
• There's an annulment process, no less!

What more could one want if one wanted to look as Catholic as can be? I guess we can be grateful that, so far, their focus in on the Western Rites.

Many years,

Neil

Its one of the positives for Eastern Catholics to be flying under the radar. Most of these groups will not try to feign Catholicity by associating with us. Since most people think Roman Catholic = Catholic Church, then they try to immitate the Roman Church.

Still is bothering and sad. Many less catechized Catholics fall into traps like this.

Bishop Musallam appears to have previously been associated with the Polish National Catholic Church. See this newsletter [buffalopittsburghdiocesepncc.org].

He appears on the web site of the Society of Pope Leo XIII (of which I had never heard) as having been consecrated by the Archbishop of London, the Most Rev. David Bell [hrcac.org.uk], who in turn was "consecrated & elevated by the late ++H.B. Patriarch Dom. Luis Fernando Castillo Mendez" "Diocesan Bishop of Brasilia, Brazil; who was in turn consecrated by the Roman Catholic Bishop Carlos Duarte Costa in 1948." So this is a sort of descendent of the Brazilian Catholic Apostolic Church too.

They apparently have a concordat with the International Communion of Charismatic Episcopal Churches [commentarius-ioannis.blogspot.com], which explains the healing services.

Their Msgr. Victor Cianca, Jr. is apparently the son of Pittsburgh's late dancing traffic cop, Victor Cianca, Sr [hangingatmos.blogspot.com].

The Roman Catholic Diocese of Pittsburgh has a warning about the group here [diopitt.org].

JB,

Thanks for the info - saved me some of the further searching in which I was planning to engage this evening.

Some background on the 'Archbishop' - a 2007 interview [theprogressnews.com]

The significance of some of the church's sites begins to be more clear. After immigrating to the US, he grew up in Milford, CT, and he pastored a PNCC parish in Houtzdale, PA.

It would appear that he was an up-and-coming cleric in the PNCC before he decided that he needed a church of his own. He was a member of the official delegation of the PNCC to the funeral of Pope John Paul II and accompanied the PNCC's Prime Bishop in talks with the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity while in Rome. See here [usccb.org].

That he has been deposed as a priest of the PNCC appears evident from this



which appeared in the blog of a PNCC deacon [konicki.com].

'Msgr' Cianci apparently started out, according to a brief blurb that I uncovered somewhere, with the intent to open an Italian Catholic Church, but encountered the 'bishop' along the way. Cianci reportedly attended a couple of years of seminary in Altoona (? the Latin diocesan one is the only one in Altoona of which I'm aware) - but I'm not sure if that was recent or not.
An interview with him is here [pittsburghlive.com].

Interesting lot.

Many years,

Neil

Constantine,

Don't ever think that they don't try to associate with Eastern and Oriental Christianity. Until the late 19th century, it was uncommon, but then Joseph Rene Vilatte, whose episcopal descendents number in the hundreds, if not thousands, secured episcopal ordination from an Oriental hierarch and the East was discovered; with all of its beautiful vesture, mystery, incense, escoteric tongues, we were a perfect match for folks who wanted to play church in absolute grandeur. There are still all manner of vagante who title themselves as Byzantine, Orthodox, etc - and some make a passable try at looking to be of us. (And, because we are not as well known as Latins, it's often easier for vagante to foist themselves off to the uneducated as really being EC, OC, EO, or OO.)

Many years,

Neil

NEIL:

Christ is in our midst!!

We haven't had a seminary in this diocese for many, many years--since the Franciscan seminary in Loretto was closed and the Franciscans moved to Canada. The facility was sold to the U.S. Bureau of Prisons and has been a low/medium prison ever since: embezzlers, drug dealers, etc. So if the man claims to have done seminary work here it's over 25 years ago.

Bob

while absent from their website, save one photo , The Catholic Church of the East is in full communion with the Assyrian Church of the East ( Mar Dhinka). I met Bishop Ramzi at a wedding last year and he is really sweet guy. the ASSYRIAN CHURCH OF THE EAST is, I believe, the largest Church in Iraq. Please, Correct me if I am wrong, but that is how I understand the situation.

eamon:

Welcome to the forum.

I think the posters are talking about a totally different group than you are. Neil can clear up the confusion. He's our resident "holder of the score card" for groups.

Bob

Not to be an "echo" but I'm thinking the same as Bob: that the "Arabic Catholic Church of the East" and the "Catholic Church of the East" are two separate groups that just happen to have similar names.

I assure you they are one in the same, both under Bishop Ramzi, they are in full communion with the Assyrian Church of the East, that is what Bishop Ramzi told me.

And thank you for welcoming me to your Forum.

My apologies. You're quite right, they are the same as the Catholic Church of the East -- indeed the website arabiccatholicarchdiocese.org has that name at the top of every page.

I haven't been about to find anything about them being in full communion with the Assyrian Church of the East, but if that's true it's certainly very interesting.

eamon,

Welcome to the forum.

Yes, Catholic Church of the East is an alternative name, apparently, for the Arabic Catholic Church of the East.

However, Bishop Ramzi's statement to you notwithstanding, I am convinced that his church has absolutely no formal (or even informal) communion with the Assyrian Church under His Holiness, Mar Dinkha IV. If you tell me that the Assyrians would allow his faithful to commune in an Assyrian Church, that I might believe because the Assyrians are extraordinarily open to communing Christians from outside their own religious community (and I've no doubt that Bishop Ramzi's Church will commune Assyrians - but I suspect they will commune most anyone who presents, typical of the genre) - but that is not communio in sacris, whatever the bishop believes.

Neither the Assyrian Church (nor its counterpart, the Ancient Church of the East) is in communion with any other Church, except the respective counterparts that each of them has in India.

The absolute closest that exists to any such relationship is the pastoral agreement that exists between the Assyrian Church, Rome, and the Chaldean Church (the Catholic counterpart to the Assyrian Church). And, I'm not completely certain how well that agreement has weathered in view of the controversy over the entry into communion with the Chaldean Church of the former Assyrian bishop, Mar Bawai Soro, a few years ago.

Many years,

Neil

Neil,
I am not really sure, and let me make it clear, I am not a member of the aforementioned church. On the website in question you will note that at the bottom there is a slide show. about half way through, there is a picture of Mar Awa, the head of the Assyrian Church in the US, and the Caption says Mar Awa at Full Communion Mass, May 5,2010. So it is clear that Bishop Ramzi is making a claim at full communion with the Assyrians.
Pax,
Eamon

Might just be a mistake by that site's webmaster.