www.byzcath.org Forums Mysteries: The Life of Worship Icons & Iconography What happens when iconography doesn't follow the rules?

I have seen many variations in styles of iconography, yet most icons I have seen have a clear message and serve as windows into heaven that are used purposely for veneration.

Though, when too much artistic liberty and ignoring of the rules of iconography happens, the icon seems to no longer serve a purpose to me.

I am speaking mostly in criticism of the Cathedral of the Ascension in Oakland, California. [Linked Image]

This icon and all others in this cathedral are downright terrifying and don't even look like they represent humans. The Pantokrator looks like an alien from a science fiction film, that had nitric acid spilled on its face. The platytera icon is no better.

No matter what manner of iconography (Western, Baroque, Russian, Greek, Coptic, Ethiopian, Syrian etc.) an image of holiness and a message of the faith are obvious and tolerable.

Yet HOW can such atrocities like the aforementioned examples even be even considered as icons or even allowed in churches?

I think the iconoclasts saw icons like these.

one of the things that happens when iconography doesn't follow the rules is the hideous, frightening illustration you posted. After that, it's downhill all the way. yecch.

what were these people thinking? It astonishes me that this in in an Orthodox temple, of all places.

If I thought Jesus looked like that I'd run screaming as far away as I could get.

"This icon and all others in this cathedral are downright terrifying and don't even look like they represent humans. The Pantokrator looks like an alien from a science fiction film, that had nitric acid spilled on its face. The platytera icon is no better."

LOL

You should visit Lourdes! The image of the Theotokos in the Basilica of the Holy Rosary is downright startling, while I can't say the iconography in the Ukrainian church knew what he was doing, either. All in all, as much as I love the place, Lourdes is a study in a bad - indeed very bad - iconography.

Mind you, I don't think anything quite beats the image that started this thread!

I've been told the icons in Oakland are referred to by some as "cave paintings" given the overall architecture of the cathedral.

Dn. David

the image above recalls travolta in Battlefield Earth.

LOL WOW! THAT IS HILARIOUS AND WHAT'S SAD IS I CAN SEE THE RESEMBLANCE!

my wife ( an Icon writer) has chimed in that is looks like Warf from star trek Next generation, I am concerned that we seem like big scifi fans, alas we are not.

What happens when the canons are not followed, is that "I" show through in stead of God showing through. Worship is destroyed and idolatry ensues.

My first exposure to Orthodoxy, and my only exposure for decades, was in this temple. When I went to the funeral of my best friend's Papou at Ascension there were only 6 or 8 of the apostles completed on the dome [flickr.com].

The Pantokrator and the Platytera are just weird, but they somehow did not deter a 10 year old High Church Episcopalian from being totally drawn into the service, which would have been I'm sure entirely in Greek. Having been exposed through the funeral I found a way to get there again a number of times over the years before making my own journey East.

Now that I have been exposed to other icons, done within the traditional language of Holy Icons, and having taken several classes in Holy Icons... I have to say I still am very fond of the iconostatis at Ascension [viewat.org], except for the Mystical Supper which I really find awful. I also like the apostles on the dome.

Personally I detest the pews more than the iconography. Luckily when I'm there for things like Compline during Great Lent there are only about 8 of us in the pews and half of that number including myself just stand in the aisles.

I also like very much the mosaics in the exonarthex.

I will always love this temple. It will be very interesting to see what kind of iconography they will have in the separate chapel [flickr.com] when that gets completed. In the current economy it seems like completion may be a ways off still.