www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News New article on celibacy controversy

Dear Friends,

Articles and forgiveness rites aside, we are still left with the situation where the RC Church in North America feels threatened by the idea that bishops in our Churches may ordain married men to the priesthood.

They can't fight the existence of married priests among us, but they don't like it.

The Ukrainian Church has been successful in staving off RC influence over us and our bishops in this respect.

Has the Ruthenian and other Churches been likewise successful in this regard?

Why or why not?

Alex

Interesting.

One point caught my eye: As best I can tell, my own family had its own little schism in the 1930s and 1940s. Trying to figure it out from relatives, it appears we had a couple priests who were ordained in the old country and were quite married when they immigrated to this country. (Interestingly, the family settled around Johnstown and branched out from there.) They weren't treated all that well in parishes here - or so one of my older aunts says. Some of my family were "born" Russian Orthodox, since we have Russian as well as Slovak ancestry, but nearly all were Catholics.

A lot of the first generation of Americans - including the married priests and a couple priests to come after - eventually joined the Carpatho-Russian Orthodox or joined (or re-joined?) the Russian Orthodox church. The priests our large family has produced in this country have been married Orthodox priests w/ children - there have been a few of them - including a military chaplain.

I still can't figure out what the big deal is. The Tulsa Diocese has several married priests (could be fewer now). They have families that are taken care of. Fr. Gary Sherman takes care of the hospital full time and the Byzantines and Maronites.

The diocese helped him get a house, his kids get a discount (I think it's a 100% discount) to go to Roman Catholic schools, etc. He works hard and his wife also works. I think his whole family is called to this service. The Romans can recognize this in Lutherans and Anglicans who come over. Why is it surprising that we find the same thing in our own people?

I think this whole issue is bizarre. The groups that always had married priests can't because it isn't normal for Romans, but Romans can because they don't want to leave Anglican and Lutheran minister converts without their "calling," (i.e. they need more priests).

Between the Orthodox and Catholic churches, it's an issue of healing. Between the Romans and the Byzantines, it's an issue of arrogance and education.

I'm a lurker on this forum but wanted to make a comment.

First, I was born, christened as a BC in the early 40's, went to RC schools, entered a RC pre-Vatican II high school seminary and then a Franciscan Novitiate (had to change from the Byzantine rite to the Roman Rite).
After determining that the religious life was not for me, I left and in those days that wasn't a particularly spiritual experience. For too many years I spent my life as an agnostic and then discoverd the Episcopal Church where I now serve as a priest (and have for over 17 years). My wife is the greatest gift that I have experienced in my life and one who shares my ministry.

How do we manage? Our Episcopal congregations know that when they received a priest, they need to make sure that he/she is supported financially. All these years I have never had to worry about that. Perhaps if marriage were an option, then BC rite churches will have to do some significant work on stewardship.

BTW, my memories of growing up in the Byzantine Rite in Lorain Ohio are all positive.

Blessings on all of you!


Fr. Mike Dobrosky
Rector, Episcopal Church of the Mediator
Meridian< MS

Glory to Jesus Christ!


Father, thank you for sharing your thoughts with us, don't be a lurker all the time, join in!

God Bless,
Michael

As a Roman Catholic, I am a little baffled by anyone being "forced to be celebate." I must just keep missing the the Grand Inquisitor blowing through town and conscripting men into the priesthood.

I think the biggest point of confusion that somehow being a celebate priest is harder than being a married priest. Different? Certainly. But I have a couple of married protestant minister friends, and its not a walk in the park for them either. One has been assigned to a remote part of Minnesota, which forced his wife to give up a job she loved and move away from her family. It was hard on both of them.

But of course the grass is always greener...

Dear Neil,

When enforced clerical celibacy became the norm in the 1920's-1930's here in the US for Greek Catholics, many of our priestly candidates with fiancees were told to pick marriage or the priesthood, after having trained hard for the position of priest and all along expecting marriage. This caused bitterness all around. Was that not forced?

In Christ,

anastasios

The Latin Church was wrong then and they are wrong now. We NEED our married priesthood. It is ours and we have the RIGHT to have it. I for one blame our Bishops. We need to start a prayer campaign for a return of the married priesthood to our church. We should start a grassroots effort. An effort to pray together. We should start a lay Prayer movement. One that is loyal to the church but prays for a return to our Traditions.

Let's start now:

In the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit

Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.

Restore what was O God, but not our will be done but yours.

Lord, make haste to help me. Lord, make speed to save me.
Lord, make haste to help me. Lord, make speed to save me.
Lord, make haste to help me. Lord, make speed to save me.

Amen!

AMEN!

You are correct, this was a terrible abuse. I should have been more clear.

I am bothered when a Latin priest complains of being forced into celebacy. I pray for the day when they won't have to make that choice--I support the restoration of the ancient, historical, and valid married priesthood in the west. Still, they did make a choice. Celibacy is just as ancient and venerable a tradition.

Sigh. I think in the end, we can all empathize with why a Latin priest (or celebate Byzantine priest) would feel some bitterness if discipline modified or done away with. Still, I think in some cases this bitterness becomes almost a pathology. Both celibacy and marriage are valid for priests. It is licit in the East, and not in the West. So be it.

Neil

Dear Friends,

I have come to know a number of RC priests who are no longer active in their ministry because they opted to get married.

22 years ago today, I was on my honeymoon cruise in Greece during which I met a married Roman priest - who knew he could no longer exercise his ministry as a result of his decision.

We visited Orthodox holy places in Jerusalem and one Coptic priest asked us our religious affiliations.

When he came to our Roman priest - he simply said, "I am a Roman priest" and that was that.

He had 15 years of spiritual training and formation to become a priest and he always wanted to be a priest.

That he needed a wife should have made no difference.

The Roman Catholic hierarchy of today is being immensely silly about this matter.

My local Catholic bookshop is stocking up on all sorts of materials for Eucharistic Ministers and other lay leadership roles (love them all!)

But it has thousands of priests who could return to the altar TOMORROW if the man-made rule about imposed celibacy could be written off by the Vatican.

A number of these RC married priests are actually entering active ministry in Anglican, Lutheran and United Churches.

The United Church of Canada passed a rule that says that a former RC priest can become a Minister with it after attending a United Church parish for one year.

Is this not tragic?

As for the traditional RC laity (who are by and large married) who demand celibacy as a condition of "holiness" from their priests - get your heads out of the sand and try to develop a healthier attitude toward sexuality . . . please.

Alex

Interesting posts. As a married deacon and one who is aspiring to priesthood, I find the whole debate unsettling. When are the Eastern Catholics going to take a stand.
I came across the following news item on RISU. Read it and ...


Update On Vatican Stops Suspending Married Men Ordained For Eastern Churches
06.05.03 (RISU.org.ua) &#8211; By Cindy Wooden Catholic News Service VATICAN CITY 28 May 2003 (CNS) -- Despite a rule the Vatican insists is still in force, it has stopped suspending married men ordained to the priesthood for service in the Eastern Catholic churches of North America and Australia.

In fact, the ordinations are occurring regularly, although they are not great in number and they are celebrated quietly.

"Rome will allow the ordinations, but it does not want a bishop to ordain married men, then splash pictures all over the place," said a professor familiar with the ongoing debate.

Father Kenneth Nowakowski, rector of Holy Spirit Seminary in Ottawa and spokesman for the Ukrainian bishops of Canada, said the Ukrainian bishop of Saskatoon "is the only current ordinary who has not ordained a married man to the priesthood" for the Ukrainian Catholic Church in Canada.

When asked if the married priests had been suspended, as was often done through the 1990s, he replied, "not that I am aware of."

"I do not believe the Vatican has officially communicated to our bishops its approval or disapproval following the ordinations," he said in a May 23 interview.

Msgr. Lucian Lamza, an official in the Congregation for Eastern Churches, said May 22 the Vatican's ban on the ordination of married men for the Eastern churches in the West "remains unchanged."

"Some bishops act as if this norm does not exist," he said, yet "we have no indication the Holy Father is about to change it."

The ordinations "are against the norm," he said. "But, of course, these priests can validly celebrate the liturgy and sacraments," since the ordinations are sacramentally valid.

Msgr. Lamza would not discuss the Vatican's reaction or lack of reaction to the ordinations.

The Vatican began placing limits on the ordination and assignment of Eastern Catholic married priests in the West in the 1880s. In 1929 the Vatican, at the request of the Latin-rite bishops of the United States, ruled that married priests could not serve the Eastern-rite churches in the United States. The ban was applied to Canada in the 1930s and to Australia in 1949.

But Ukrainian, Ruthenian and Melkite Catholic bishops who support the ordination of married men throughout their communities have said the Second Vatican Council's call to respect the traditions and disciplines of the Eastern churches and similar affirmations in the 1990 Code of Canons of the Eastern Churches have nullified the ban.

At the very least, they have said, the new code makes the ordination of married men in the West a "disputed question." Under church law, a norm whose validity is a "disputed question" is not binding.

At the end of the academic year, the Ottawa seminary had 13 Ukrainian Catholic seminarians, one of whom is married, Father Nowakowski said. In addition, three married deacons preparing for priestly ordination in Canada are part of the seminary community. They participate in the liturgical life of the seminary along with their wives and children, he said.

An Eastern Catholic bishop who ordained a married man to the priesthood this spring informed his priests and the members of his diocese that, although the ordination originally was questioned by a Vatican official, the official later said the Vatican did not object.

The bishop, contacted by Catholic News Service, said it was important to let his people know the status of the question, but he considered the communication private.

Dear Reverend Father Deacon Yurij,

If the only thing our Lord has to say against our Eastern Catholic bishops on the Final Day of Judgement is that they didn't listen to the Vatican on the issue of married priests to serve our Churches, then I think our bishops will be very happy indeed!

For an eternity . . .

Alex