www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology just to clarify..

Hi,

I'm sure this topic was covered before but there's something in particular I'm still not really sure about..

I'm an Eastern Catholic, so I tried to follow the Eastern fasts and everything. However, I attend a Roman Catholic parish on weekends. There's no parish of my rite (Russian Catholic) anywhere near me at all. There's a similar - Ukrainian Catholic - parish in my town, but it's kind of far, - and I don't drive, so I need a ride... it's more convenient for my family to give me a ride to the Roman Catholic parish that's close by. (there are no buses). Also, I wouldn't really understand the service in Ukrainian... my question is, am I sinning?? I know canonically, I'm supposed to attend an Eastern parish.. but is it a sin if I don't? This is really complicating my spiritual life.. especially because in practice, I'm quite 'Roman' as well. But I can't figure out if God would want me to transfer rites.. I really need to pray about this, but if I should, - how would I even go about doing that? meanwhile, - am I committing sin by fulfilling my Sunday obligation in a Roman Catholic parish, even though I follow the Eastern fasts?

thanks!

There is no sin in attending liturgy in any Catholic rite. Don't worry. Relax. In that order.

I still don't get it. You're driving yourself nuts for no good reason. Go talk to a priest and see what he says.

I dont know any priest in my sui iuris church. The closest parish is in another country lol. We don't have a bishop either (out bishop is the local Latin bishop). Most Roman Catholic priests I've spoken to told me I'm actually Roman Catholic.. an Eastern (Ukrainian) Catholic priest told me I'm Eastern Catholic - and canon law seems to indicate this too. I don't know how to practice it though, without a parish. It's actually very confusing. It was suggested to me to just write to Rome, I might do that.

You can attend Divine Liturgy in any Catholic rite, no matter what sui iuris church you're enlisted to. (Can. 923, 1248.1).

thanks, - would you say that according to canon law, I should attend another Eastern liturgy (though not my sui iuris church, since this is not an option) - or is the Latin liturgy fine? I'm asking because you said "Divine Liturgy", so I'm not sure if you meant the DL stricly speaking or the Mass as well

Little Flower,
You can attend any Catholic Divine Liturgy or Mass and not be in violation of any Church Law, nor any sin. Your situation is unfortunate, but your thoughts are commendable.

It appears that you don't have access to advice from a knowledgeable RC priest and my heart goes out to you. You should contact the Ukrainian Catholic priest so that he is aware of you and your situation. Then when you need the Church-specific sacraments (like marriage, healing, future baptism) he will be available. Until then or until you can drive there, don't be concerned.

Christ is risen!
Fr Deacon Paul

Thanks for the reply

most RC priests have told me that I am Roman Catholic.. except a priest I spoke to last year (who asked the bishop), and the priests at the Latin Mass parish I attended earlier this year. I also spoke to an Eastern Catholic priest, but I'm still unsure about some things because I still have some questions.. it was recommended that I write to Rome.. because I'm getting many different answers from people. For example, I was told that if I can't make it a Russian Catholic parish (which I definitely can't), I should attend the Ukrainian parish.. but others told me I can just attend the Latin parish in that case... who is right?

is it true taht some Sacraments I would only be able to receive from an Eastern Catholic priest? what are these Sacraments? (I guess Confession and Communion are not on the list..)

would it be really difficult to switch rites? I love the East too but it's hard trying to be both Eastern and Western at the same time, and my spirituality is more Latin rite.

I wish it wasn't so complex - at one point I even doubted if I was received into the Church properly, because I became Catholic at a Latin parish, and I was coming from Orthodoxy.

thanks again

Also if some Sacraments I can only receive in an Eastern Catholic parish - wouldn't that be my sui iuris church, Russian Catholic? Yet - the nearest one is way too far from me.. so I'm not sure how that would work

There is one Catholic Church. ANy worship in any parish of the Catholic Church, Russian, Latin, Ethiopian, whatever, satisfies any obligation you may have.You are as Catholic as anyone else, go to a Latin parish - or a Ukrainian, or whatever else, it doesn't matter. Their sacraments are your sacraments. I have no idea why anyone would suggest that eastern sacraments are somehow better for you than Roman ones.

Really, ROme would be quite happy with this as the Latin bishop is your ordinary. It would no doubt be quite happy if you changed to the Latin rite as well. This is probably the outcome it actually hoped for by denying a hierarchy to the Russian Catholics for so long, that they would all drift latin-wards or to Orthodoxy (from Rome's perspective preferably the former) and get rid of a thorn in the side of debates with Moscow.

Monica,

We've been through this previously, on several occasions, even on more than one site. Nothing has changed.

You are an Eastern Catholic by reason of having been received into the Catholic Church from Holy Orthodoxy.

You are, specifically, a member of the Russian Greek-Catholic Church sui iuris by reason of having been of the Russian Orthodox Church, regardless of the fact that you were received into a Latin parish.

There is no Russian Greek-Catholic parish in Canada; there has not been one since Presentation of the Virgin in Montreal was suppressed in 1997.

There are no Russian Greek-Catholic bishops in Canada or anywhere in the world and have not been since the repose of Bishop Andrei (Katkoff), of blessed memory. This means that Russian Greek-Catholics are the canonical subjects of the Latin bishop within whose canonical jurisdiction they reside.

A Catholic of any Church sui iuris may attend and participate in Catholic worship in any of its forms and by any of its names - Mass, the Divine Liturgy, the Holy Qurbono, the Qurbana Qadisha, the Soorp Badarak, the Ùér’ata Qéddase, or the Service of the Divine Mysteries - thus, in any temple of any Church sui iuris. Doing so, will fulfill and satisfy his or her obligation (if any) to do so.

It is not required that, lacking a parish of one's own Church sui iuris, one attend one of another Church sui iuris of the same Rite. In other words, because you belong to a Church sui iuris that is of the Byzantine Rite, it does not follow that you need seek out or attend a parish of another Church that is of the Byzantine Rite. Some would elect to do so, others might not.

Georgraphic proximity or the lack thereof does not enter into it. You could pass a parish of each of the 13 other Churches sui iuris of the Byantine Rite and worship at a Latin parish, were that what most suited you spiritually. And, you would have done nothing wrong, let alone sinful!

A letter to Rome is going to serve you little if any purpose - it is likely to be remanded to the local Latin ordinary for him, as your lawful canonical hierarch, to deal with.

You need to get past this. You continuously raise the precise issue, with minor variations, all across the web. This is mentally and spiritually unhealthy and, as well as being symptomatic of an unhealthy scrupulousity, and smacks of pridefulness.

It is as if you believe yourself to be the first Eastern Catholic to be faced with geographic separation from your own Church and posing some unique query that has never before been imagined. You aren't! This is a quandry that has faced our peoples - Russian and otherwise - for better than a century, since they began to emigrate from their native countries, where they lived in villages clustered around their temple and surrounded by others of their ilk.

If you believe that you wish to live your spiritual life as a member of the Church to which you are canonically ascribed, then seek out spiritual guidance from the local UGCC priest as to how to do that. And don't bother responding to that with the same whining excuse that I've seen you post before - that it isn't a satisfactory route to go because 'it will be different, because Ukrainian isn't Russian'. That is an excuse and nothing more. The differences don't/won't exist for you because you don't/won't know what they are - the traditions are sufficiently close to satisfy any but those consumed by some personal belief that hell is waiting for those conforming to the spirit and not the letter of praxis.

If you do not want to live spiritually as a Byzantine, then ask the Latin bishop, who is your lawful canonical hierarch, to dispense you from doing so and grant that you follow Latin fasts, feasts, etc. It is he who has the authority to do so.

I regret that this reply sounds both blunt and harsh but I keep hoping that, as some point, you will get past this and move on.

Many years,

Neil

Do you really, seriously, believe that every Russian Catholic in the US travels to 1 of the 4 RGC parishes for Mysteries? If so, I suggest a reality check.

The sole problematical Mystery for an EC in your situation is that of Crowning/Marriage. As an Eastern Catholic, you can be married in any Catholic church (with the permission of your ordinary - in this case, the Latin bishop) but, as an Eastern Catholic, the cleric officiating must be a priest - not a deacon. Other than that, the only requirement is that it be noted in the Sacramental Register that you are an EC.

Many years,

Neil

Neil,

I appreciate your reply, but I don't understand why you would accuse me of "pridefulness" and other such things. Your understanding of my motive is also incorrect. Sorry I''m asking because it honestly doesn't make sense to me. For example when I was trying to figure out what the Russian Catholic fast is, - it does seem to be different from the Ukrainian one. I never though that my situation is "unique" and I'm only trying to figure out the truth, because i've been told very different answers. but thanks for the info.

Don't approach fasting from a legalistic perspective. It's not a matter of law, but of growing in Christ through mastery of the passions. You should find a spiritual father who will help you design a fasting regime that is right for you in your state of spiritual development. There is only one set of fasting regulations in the Byzantine Tradition, but it is an ideal towards which one should aspire, not a law the violation of which is a sin. Any divergences from the rule by specific jurisdictions is a matter of oikonomia, and should be seen as minima, not maxima.

And just go to whatever Byzantine or Greek Catholic church is within reach, whether it's Russian, Ukrainian, Romanian or Melkite. Machts nicht--the Tradition is the Tradition. And if no Greek Catholic Church is nearby and you feel it necessary to worship in the Byzantine Tradition, go to an Orthodox church. You can always go to a Roman Catholic Church on occasion to confess or to receive the Eucharist. Tens of thousands of Greek Catholics do.

Do not make mountains out of molehills.

I see what you are saying.. the reason I go to the Latin parish is because my spirituality is more Roman Catholic... especially the Tridentine Latin Mass