www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Did Jesus Really Help Him Hit that Ball?

Dear Brian you said:

I say:

I for one, always try to look at the results of what God allowed. God didn't help Constantinople, and He didn't help the Germans in WW I, so the best we can do is look at the shortcomings of those He was not with, and do everything we can to keep our society from following them.

I for one, do not know all the circumstances of each and everytime a society, (town, village, nation, etc.) was destroyed, but from the few things that I have observed in recent era's, the prevalence of the occult within those societies, seems to have a very adverse effect on it's survival.

Zenovia

Well I kinda thought that God was routing for the Israelites because of what jericho had become maybe? The crusades, at least initially were, I like to think, God inspired maybe?

That is certainly quite debatable especially in the case of Eastern Christians. I personally doubt your conclusion and actually was trying to make a larger point about linking God and nationalism which is indeed dangerous

It is noteworthy that Northridge was (and still is) the porn capital of the world. Many died in the 1994 earthquake.

It we can know God's mind in that way and can infer that it is from from "occult" behavior among other transgressions that cities are destroyed, by that line of thinking, Bourbon St in New Orleans should have been completely destroyed by the late Hurricane instead of being one of the few areas which was spared. It is TOO EASY an argument to make and is NOT logical.

My question wasn't about war.

Let me change the subject a bit....

What do you do when you think that instead of God "helping me to .......(whatever)", you find that in the deepest part of your heart, you are not really sure that God much cares about any of it.

I find it is hard to understand why God would stand idly by and let heretics in the Church deceive millions.

I find the Russian revolution hard to understand given the consistent Orthodoxy and spirituality of Russia at the turn of the 20th century. According to Holy Scripture, the Jews, when they were obedient to the Lord, could expect protection of a miraculous sort. Yet obedient Christians are slaughtered like cattle by a seminary student turned madman.

More recently -- I look at the proliferation of the Muslim religion and I wonder why God doesn't move in a special way to reveal Himself to these people that they be converted. I remember reading a story about two Immans walking together discussing religious matters when they suddenly had a vision of Christ and were converted to the Christian Faith.

Why not all Muslims?

I could go on and on, but I think you understand what I am struggling with. I know that I -- a handful of dust worth about $27.00 in chemicals -- should not question the One Who has hung the stars in space and Who fills all things.

But **sigh** I do.

Brother Ed -- who doesn't think God intervenes in sports events, musical auditions, or anything else we have the power to do well ourselves.

Dear Br. Ed,

I too have struggled and struggle with your question(s). As I see it, either the God who worked miracles in the lives of our ancient fathers is exactly the same to day (thus there must be another reason why we do not see miracles as we would like) or He never existed in the first place and all those stories are just that...stories...intended to encourage us in the face of ultimate meaninglessness.

We can't opt for the second choice and remain christians (Anglican Bishop Spong notwithstanding). So that throws us back to the first choice. God is God, the Unchangeable, ineffible Diety whom He has always been; that our God is none other than the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacub. I suggest that we are in an era described by the Prophets as being a "famine of the Word of the Lord".

A few points. You point out that when Israel was faithful they could expect to be delivered miraculously should they be in danger. Now, this is true...but only sometimes. It's not a fact of life. Did not God say in the midst of national apostasy taht he had so many hundreds reserved to himself who had not knelt to Baal? God has his people. And they are always faithful. But when the nation errs it brings on judgement and the faithful are not spared. For some reason Divine intervention only came to Israel when the whole nation was of one mind in piety. And you know, even when the nation was visibly holy they were not always so in their hearts. "With you lips you honor me but your hearts are far from me" says the Lord". What does this mean but that people were going about the daily tasks of life and religion? We seem to think that they were always falling down to idols. But that is not so. There were long periods of life when the nation was "holy". We are not given lots of info on these periods because there is not much to say about them. In fact, i would argue that it is these periods that led to the apostasies of the people. Why? Because somehow they turned from God without abandoning the true religion. THen slowly but surely they moved down the path of full apostasy to idol worship. It was during these periods that there was a famine for hearing the word of the Lord. Consider...there can be no famine where the people are not hungry. The apostate were not hungry for the word of the Lord, they were filling themselves with Baal and Molech. Who was suffering in this famine? It was the remnant! The righteous who had not abandoned their first love. They were the victims of the famine...they were the casualties. They were the ones languishing about "Where is God?" "Where is his power now?" "Why doesnt he intervene and save us?" But always the word of the prophet was "Wait. Judgment is coming. It will take on a form none of you would have ever imagined. But it will come and when it does, it will be swift. Then you will again hear the word of the Lord."

So,I think we are in a situation like that. The world, in general (as the nation) has gone after other gods. Those who remain faithful are few. Now, for a while we suffer because of the wicked. God has withdrawn his presence, for a time, that the wickedness of the world may run its full course. Then in the fullness of time he will come in Judgement. (I'm not talking about the second coming here. This is not a prediction about the end times.) Then, once again the earth will be renewed, the faith will flourish and the Word of God will be like silver and gold in the days of Solomon...so plentiful even the begger has some.

I think God's word for us today is "Wait patiently on the Lord."

Jason

Dear Brother Ed,

If "Christians" would be Christians I don't think we'd have any problem with conversions.

Bill

Just to clarify, I am not denying that miracles can and do happen today. I am simply saying that they do not occur as a matter of course in our lives as they appear to have done in the lives of the ancients. Read the "Ecclesiastical History of England" by St Bede if you need an 'introduction to miracles' in the current age. It is my hope that some day (soon) we will enter another age of miracles as in St Bede's day.

Jason

Dear Altar Boy,

In the popular book about a holy priest in Soviet Russian and a miraculous survivor of Stalin's gulags, 'Fr. Arseny', he says that the sins of Russian priests before the Revolution were to blame for it.

Ofcourse, we only focus on the piety of Russia before the Communist Revolution, but we don't know how much the majority of people, aristocracy, peasants, and clergy, may have fallen. People who lived then, such as Fr. Arseny are a window into that reality with their commentaries.

Alice

Dear Brian you said:

I say:

Actually, Bourbon Street is the business area. It was not where those that are heavily involved with the occult live. As for whether it is logical, why wouldn't it be? When one worships the Devil, can any good come from it? Are you saying that God has no idea of what he's allowing to happen and what he is not allowing to happen? :rolleyes:

Shame on you! :p

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Dear Altar Boy you said:

I say:

Actually, In the book on Father Arseny, (that spent over 30 years in the Gulag and is obviously a saint), he had said that it was the priests in Russia that was to blame for communism, because it is the priests that the people follow. He also said that had the people followed and listened to Saint John of Kronstadt, God would not have allowed the revolution.

Actually, thousands did follow Saint John, but it was obviously not enough. Also Saint Luke the Surgeon said that it was the people that had fallen far from God, that caused the revolution.
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Dear Jason you said:

I say:

Actually miracles are happening everywhere, just not here. I just finished a book on a saint of Greece that was martyred in the early 1800's. The recent miracles are phenominal. But of course, they occur at the place the saint lived and was martyred.

It seems in order for miracles to happen, people must believe in them. I say this because the main stream Protestants believed that miracles ceased to exist after Jesus. They never had miracles, yet the Evangelicals that do believe in miracles have them quite often.

Zenovia

Dear Alice you said:

That is why we can only see what God has allowed, and then try to understand why God allowed it. My personal feelings are that when a society reaches the point of delving into the occult, then something will happen. From things that I have read, the occult seems to have been very prominent in the early 1900's in Europe, and predominantly among the elite.

Zenovia

Maybe God really only truly helps us when our motives are pure. And only the truly Holy are pure. Therefore, when we hear of God through St. Pio curing the little blind girl who was born without pupils, we know that he was pure enough to be the conduit to allow the Holy Healing Energies to flow through him to heal the little girl.

(Who, by the way, is still alive. She still has no pupils and can see perfectly. A bona fide miracle. If light can't get in her eye because there is no pupil how does the retina receive the image to pass through the optic nerve to get to the brain?)

My conclusion is that Jesus only helped the guy hit the ball in so far as He gave the ball player the talent to develop the skill to hit the ball. Jesus doesn't care who wins the game... unless it's a Notre Dame game! :p

GO IRISH!

I believe you and Zenovia have it right. God gave us talents to serve HIM. If our heart is right, if by helping us directly, God is glorified (first and foremost) and it helps our holiness increase (by which God will be glorified), then God will help us hit homeruns.

But God knows better than us. It may be that we may THINK we are glorifying God, but hitting the homerun will cause us to have pride later on. God will see that and will then NOT help us hit the homerun.

In any case, humility in all things, no matter the outcome of a situation, seems a better matter for contemplation, rather than wondering if God will give us a positive or negative answer to our prayers.

Blessings,
Marduk