|
0 members (),
493
guests, and
111
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums26
Topics35,530
Posts417,670
Members6,182
| |
Most Online4,112
Mar 25th, 2025
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309 Likes: 3
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309 Likes: 3 |
Father David,
Your statement is ambiguous regarding the timing of the services. In the Russian Church (and some other Slavic Churches that have adopted Russian usage), Vespers, Matins and First Hour are usually celebrated on Saturday evening, and on the eve of most major feasts, in lieu of serving Orthros in the morning. This is the so-called "All Night Vigil" service.
That aside, I agree with you entirely: the priest and the parish should offer the full range of canonical services for Sundays and festal days. The priest has many duties, but most of them can be done by other people. The only ones that require his personal, hand-on attention are celebrating the liturgy and administering the sacraments, and these should have priority over all else (including so-called "vital" administrative functions).
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 640 Likes: 12
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 640 Likes: 12 |
Bob, He is and shall be! I was never learned rhetoric  ... But it is a good and fair question of account to ask and answer. The Liturgy is the most profound and powerful school of catechesis and theology there is. The Byzantine Rite (regardless of variant) when celebrated in its full pomp and brilliance is the best tool of evangelism in this day. Omission of any of the three main services is a great disservice. Nevertheless, excuses abound why we shouldn't-most notably that no one shows up, people don't have time, it's too complex...I don't know, I just get irritated. If you love God, you'll do what you can to be with Him. If not... And I wholehearted agree with Stuart-Priests should just be Priests. They really have nothing better to do than take care of the spiritual side of things, and why they waste time (relatively speaking) on administrative tasks, especially when in this day and society other people are more than capable of doing the temporal aspects. Oh well, it seems like a lot of attitute adjustment needs to be made, but that is why we struggle through life. In Christ, Adam
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,356 Likes: 100
Moderator Member
|
|
Moderator Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,356 Likes: 100 |
Adam:
Christ is in our midst!!
I agree with you wholeheartedly. I guess I've just been worn down by living among people whose whole faith life is geared to "what do I have to do?" and "you don't have to do that." It wearies one over time.
I agree that the Byzantine treasury is the best school for evangelization and spiritual growth. How do we get the message out? There seems to be this attitude that there is some point where we don't need to grow or learn anything more. I guess it confirms the Desert Fathers' statement that the only area that a man may not pursue is the pursuit of God without being labeled a fanatic. You can be the best scientist, physician, or whatever, but to try to grow spiritually or in the knowledge of the Kingdom . . .
Bob
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 640 Likes: 12
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 640 Likes: 12 |
He is and shall be!
Bob,
You know, the History Channel had a series on the Seven Deadly Sins (you can find it on YouTube), and one of the things I learned that when Evagrios made his list, he had two items that Pope St Gregory the Great rolled into Sloth: acedia and tristitia. Acedia is spiritual apathy (not apatheia, but just plain "I don't care"), which kills spiritual growth by lethargy. One problem is people don't like being told or shown they are doing wrong, and so they make up labels as a part of the excuse making. Here they make up a minimum to skate by, and to justify that, make doing more some kind of abberation or wrong. Of course, the devil throws this into our face to get us to stop what we are doing. It's tough, but we must pray, be diligent, and keep trucking, and let the others attitude slide off. It's a part of being meek, I think. If getting to Heaven were easy, everyone would be doing it...
In Christ,
Adam
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,461 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,461 Likes: 1 |
In our parish (St. Michael's UGCC) in Grand Rapids, it's too much. We have either orthos or the third/sixth hour before the Liturgy and unfortunately despite our best efforts attendance is very low. It's a lot of work as cantor to sing these offices as well as the Liturgy, especially when participation is low.
Orthos is complicated and thanks be to God we have a retired Melkite priest and his wife who has helped tremendously. I feel that I have grown spiritually from participating in these services.
We use the Basilian Fathers Divine Office book (Stamford) which, in most cases, is a good resource.
Does anyone know if this has been reprinted yet? I heard a new edition was due this year.
Best wishes to all!
Stefan-Ivan In US Midwestern parishes distance is often a beast that is difficult to wrestle with, especially for working families with children. With our particular law for the UGCC in the USA, which allows Vespers, Matins or the DL to "fulfill the obligation" every priest and deacon should be catechizing his people to a fuller understanding of the Sacrifice of Praise and the vital role of the Divine Praises in the complete Eucharistic cycle. The UGCC Particular Law also instructs every parish to restore Vespers and Matins where it has fallen into disuse. At our mission Vespers is far better attended than Matins; it seems during the Hours after Matins is when most of the folks start to trickle in. Having a number of families with small children I understand this. But the first matter of importance is to offer the Sacrifice of Praise. Orthos is complicated and thanks be to God we have a retired Melkite priest and his wife who has helped tremendously. I feel that I have grown spiritually from participating in these services.
We use the Basilian Fathers Divine Office book (Stamford) which, in most cases, is a good resource.
Does anyone know if this has been reprinted yet? I heard a new edition was due this year. A few months ago a request was sent out for comments to revise the first edition; I submitted mine and haven't heard much other than it is planned for late 2011 or early 2012. I hope the binding is better this time; if it weren't for glue and black tape mine would be a pile of pages. I also highly recommend Archpriest Roman Galadza's Vespers and Matins books in English; we have used these since the beginning of our mission. They are wonderful resources, containing all of the music in either staff notation or neumes for Galician and Kyivan chant for the appropriate parts. Is trying to have all three services on a weekend and/or Feast asking a bit much of 21st century parishioners?
Bob Generally I have found if you pray, they will come. You may not see the same people for Vespers as for Matins or Liturgy, and the numbers may not be very high (especially where we are small communities and spread out in the Midwest and West), but it is our duty as clergy to celebrate the Sacrifice of Parise.
|
|
|
|
|
