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I was showing my wife a lecture by Met. Hilarion Alfeyev that I have bookmarked about Christ's descent into Hades. In it, he articulates the idea that Christ brought salvation to all there, so that *all* may be saved, truly destroying death's grip on humanity, and approaches the idea from both Eastern and Western points of view, relying heavily on the Church Fathers.

In talking about it with her, I began to remember how much I really admire and love this lecture of his, as it makes so much sense to me, it's difficult for me now to understand my faith without this understanding of Christ.

I am curious as to how others here see it.

http://fatherstephen.wordpress.com/bishop-hilarion-alfeyev-on-the-descent-of-christ-into-hades/

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I just realized this should be in Faith & Theology forum, not sure why I posted it in East & West. Any way a mod could move it?

I'm still curious as to how others view this line of thought in Eastern thinking.

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It worked for Gregory of Nyssa; it works for me.

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I love this thought process ...

In the Latin Church I was taught (probably wrongly) that Christ descended into Hell and rose on the Third Day.

It always confused the hell out of me - why would he go to hell?

Hades (the Tomb) makes much more sense to me -

He is the Firstborn of the Dead and goes back to all humanity who did not get to live after HIM to be saved and lifts them out of the tomb!

I always envisioned him going to hell when I was a Kid and trying to figure out if he did battle with Satan or what exactly ahappened there.

Hades ( a jewish place of the dead not the damnded) seems more appropriate.

correct me if I'm wrong - I'm just a lowly serf - not much theological training.


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Haydukovich; the problem with your thought process is that hell in the east is not a physical place, its a state of mind/ soul.

According to Alfeyev et al. (or at least my understanding of them) Hell is not something GOd does to us (damnation), or somewhere God sends us, it is something that we do to ourselves. All the souls of the dead go to the same "place", but how they perceive it is very much up to them. If they have lived their life entirely uninterested in God, they won't experience it as positively as someone who has sought union with God will.

However, to truly have union with God, one needs Christ; so those who didn't have him were at something of a disadvantage, hence the need for Christ to liberate those souls who had no chance to liberate themselves.

There are niceties of the argument that I have some issues with, but in a broad brush sense that is how it goes.

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Well, there's Gehenna, the Lake of Fire, Hades/Sheol. All of these are used in scripture, but eventually, the word hell was replaced and was used mostly across the board, so it is difficult to tell what we are talking about here. Maybe this is why there is reference to the Limbo of the Fathers.

That Christ descended into hell and rose on the third day is part of the Apostles Creed. Depending upon the translation, he descended into hell, or descended to the dead.

The Church hasn't really made a distinction about how it uses the word, hell. Is it the hell of the damned, or is it similar to the limbus patrium.

Which hell do people go to for those who do not die in God's friendship before the second coming? Is it Hades, or is it the hell of the damned?



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Me, I was always taught that those who die in a state of utter alienation from God (in the state of "mortal sin") go straight to the Hell of the damned; and "that's all she wrote" for them.

I'm not so sure I still believe that. Shoot: I'm not sure I still believe A LOT of things I was taught.

Ambiguity has become one of my constant companions. And that's OK.

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Glory to Jesus Christ,

I've been reading (off and on) the Book of Revelation and it has provided some understanding of Final Judgment.

Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them.
And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.
The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.
Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:11-15

The commentary which accompanies these verses in the Orthodox Study Bible provides additional explanation. As I've grown older I find Revelation to be very comforting in this unsettled time; it is truly a book of joy.

Fr Deacon Paul

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I think it's important that we keep in mind what he says in the text of the lecture. I enjoy it so much I want to quote the entire thing because it's hard to just lift sections (and risk removing them from their surrounding context) but I will attempt to in order to help the conversation.

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The general conclusion can now be drawn from a comparative analysis of Eastern and Western understandings of the descent into Hades. In the first three centuries of the Christian Church, there was considerable similarity between the interpretation of this doctrine by theologians in East and West. However, already by the 4th—5th centuries, substantial differences can be identified. In the West, a juridical understanding of the doctrine prevailed. It gave increasingly more weight to notions of predestination (Christ delivered from hell those who were predestined for salvation from the beginning) and original sin (salvation given by Christ was deliverance from the general original sin, not from the ‘personal’ sins of individuals). The range of those to whom the saving action of the descent into hell is extended becomes ever more narrow. First, it excludes sinners doomed to eternal torment, then those in purgatory and finally unbaptized infants. This kind of legalism was alien to the Orthodox East, where the descent into Hades continued to be perceived in the spirit in which it is expressed in the liturgical texts of Great Friday and Easter, i.e. as an event significant not only for all people, but also for the entire cosmos, for all created life.

At the same time, both Eastern and Western traditions suggest that Christ delivered from hell the Old Testament righteous led by Adam. Yet if in the West this is perceived restrictively (Christ delivered only the Old Testament righteous, while leaving all the rest in hell to eternal torment), in the East, Adam is viewed as a symbol of the entire human race leading humanity redeemed by Christ (those who followed Christ were first the Old Testament righteous led by Adam and then the rest who responded to the preaching of Christ in hell).

...

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By creating human beings and putting them in a situation where they choose between good and evil, God assumed the responsibility for their further destiny. God did not leave man face to face with the devil, but Himself entered into the struggle for humanity’s spiritual survival. To this end, He sent prophets and teachers and then He Himself became man, suffered on the cross and died, descended into Hades and was raised from the dead in order to share human fate. By descending into Hades, Christ did not destroy the devil as a personal, living creature, but ‘abolished the power of the devil’, that is, deprived the devil of authority and power stolen by him from God. When he rebelled against God, the devil set himself the task to create his own autonomous kingdom where he would be master and where he would win back from God a space where God’s presence could be in no way felt. In Old Testament understanding, this place was sheol. After Christ, sheol became a place of divine presence.

This presence is felt by all those in paradise as a source of joy and bliss, but for those in hell it is a source of suffering. Hell, after Christ, is no longer the place where the devil reigns and people suffer, but first and foremost it is the prison for the devil himself as well as for those who voluntarily decided to stay with him and share his fate. The sting of death was abolished by Christ and the walls of hell were destroyed. But ‘death even without its sting is still powerful for us… Hell with its walls destroyed and its gates abolished is still filled with those who, having left the narrow royal path of the cross leading to paradise, follow the broad way all their lives’[62] .

Christ descended into hell not as another victim of the devil, but as Conqueror. He descended in order to ‘bind up the powerful’ and to ‘plunder his vessels’. According to patristic teaching, the devil did not recognize in Christ the incarnate God. He took Him for an ordinary man and, rising to the ‘bait’ of the flesh, swallowed the ‘hook’ of the Deity (the image used by Gregory of Nyssa). However, the presence of Christ in hell constituted the poison which began gradually to ruin hell from within (this image was used by the 4th-century Syrian author Jacob Aphrahat[63]). The final destruction of hell and the ultimate victory over the devil will happen during the Second Coming of Christ when ‘the last enemy to be destroyed is death’, when everything will be subjected to Christ and God will become ‘all in all’[64] .

The doctrine of the descent of Christ into Hades is important for an understanding of God’s action in human history, as reflected in the Old Testament. The biblical account of the flood, which destroyed all humanity, is a stumbling block for many who wish to believe in a merciful God but cannot reconcile themselves with a God who ‘repents’ of his own deed. The teaching on the descent into hell, as set forth in 1 Pet. 3:18—21, however, brings an entirely new perspective into our understanding of the mystery of salvation. It turns out that the death sentence passed by God to interrupt human life does not mean that human beings are deprived of hope for salvation, because, failing to turn to God during their lifetime, people could turn to Him in the afterlife having heard Christ’s preaching in the prison of hell. While committing those He created to death, God did not destroy them, but merely transferred them to a different state in which they could hear the preaching of Christ, to believe and to follow Him.

The Paschal hymn: Christ is risen from the dead, in death He trampled death. And to those in the tomb He granted life.

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As the last stage in the divine descent (katabasis) and self-emptying (kenosis), the descent of Christ into Hades became at the same time the starting point of the ascent of humanity towards deification (theosis)[77]. Since this descent the path to paradise is opened for both the living and the dead, which was followed by those whom Christ delivered from hell. The destination point for all humanity and every individual is the fullness of deification in which God becomes ‘all in all’[78] . It is for this deification that God first created man and then, when ‘the time had fully come’ (Gal. 4:4), Himself became man, suffered, died, descended to Hades and was raised from the dead.

We do not know if every one followed Christ when He rose from hell. Nor do we know if every one will follow Him to the eschatological Heavenly Kingdom when He will become ‘all in all’. But we do know that since the descent of Christ into Hades the way to resurrection has been opened for ‘all flesh’, salvation has been granted to every human being, and the gates of paradise have been opened for all those who wish to enter through them. This is the faith of the Early Church inherited from the first generation of Christians and cherished by Orthodox Tradition. This is the never-extinguished hope of all those who believe in Christ Who once and for all conquered death, destroyed hell and granted resurrection to the entire human race.

Like I said, a lot. But what these passages say is somewhat specific, I think. I bolded the parts that I think warrant emphasis.

According to this understanding, one might even say that the brunt of Christ's work was done not even on Earth nor on the cross, but in His descent when he completely destroyed the power of Satan and death upon every human being.

If we see that this event is something that occurred outside our understanding of space and time here on Earth, then we can say that this pivotal event is a focal point in the history of Creation that takes place for those who died thousands of years ago, for those who die today, and for those yet to be born.

I have always been fascinated with the Hebrew idea of "tikkun olam" and have never been able to shake the idea that it is also integral in the character of God, and this understanding of Christ's role in history fits nicely with that idea as well.


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