www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West New UGCC Catechism Reaffirms Papal Infallibility?

Just read that link. Thanks.

I call it as I see it, but as I said before you do not have to agree with me.

I think - at least based upon the translation of the UGCC catechism text supplied in the first post in this thread - that the UGCC's stated position on the papacy is a Latiniztion.

Now as far as the liturgy is concerned, and again I have only been to a couple UGCC parishes (and have only seen the liturgy as celebrated at the Immaculate Conception cathedral in Philadelphia), to be fair it does look so much like a "Latin" liturgy as it does s "novus ordo" liturgy. I guess I would describe it as something in between an Orthodox liturgy and a modern Roman Rite (OF) liturgy. But - to be fair - I have seen only a few UGCC liturgies over the past several years, and perhaps they are not representative of the vast majority of UGCC parishes.

Again, it is just my take on the situation.

Just to add: a more recent overview of the new UGCC Catechism with a detailed listing of its contents can be read here. [catholicukes.org.au]

Thanks for the link, I will check it out.

I also will be getting a copy of the UGCC catechism when it is finally published in English, and I will be scouring it closely to see what it says on things like the immaculate conception, created grace, the divine energies, the ancestral sin, and the papacy, just to name a few things.

I wonder what is meant by the following:

". . . the teachings and documents of the Universal Catholic Church and, of course, last but not least, the teaching Magisterium of the Universal Church."

The Ukrainian Church is the universal (i.e., catholic) Church, just as the Melkite Church is the universal Church. I hope that the author is not referring to what the West calls "the Roman Magisterium." If he is referring to Rome with the word "universal" it is sad, but such is life for an Eastern Catholic I suppose.


Postscript: With further review of the linked text (see the paragraph that touches upon "recent moral teaching") it does appear that the author identifies "universal" with Rome (and the Roman Curia).

My hope was that the UGCC catechism could be used by an Eastern Orthodox Christian, but alas its teaching on the papacy makes that impossible. I suppose that that was a foolish hope on my part. So it seems the issuance of the UGCC catechism is yet another missed opportunity for us Eastern Catholics to show the Orthodox that being in communion with Rome does not necessitate Latinization of our doctrinal patrimony.

I will of course continue to pray for my Ukrainian Catholic friends and brothers, and I hope that they will do the same for us lowly Melkites.

Many years!

I'll re-ask if anyone here can tell us what paragraph 293 has to say on the role of the papacy and especially what the quotation from the Council of Florence says? Many thanks.

A catechism is simply a catechism. It is unrealistic to expect it to reflect any developments that may have occurred or are occurring in ecumenical dialogues. I remember when the Catholic Cathechism was first published: many complained that the section on justification did not reflect the developments that had occurred in the Lutheran/Catholic dialogue.

Father, bless.

I would agree there are limitations to what we can expect a Catechism to do when it comes to doctrinal issues that are the subject of dialogue between Catholicism and Orthodoxy.

Still, is it not fair to conclude that, according to this Catechism, the faith of Ukrainian Catholics includes belief in papal infallibility (as taught by Pastor Aeternus and Lumen Gentium), papal supremacy (as taught by Florence) and more than 7 ecumenical councils?

Dave,

Until the official translation into English of the new Catechism comes out there is little point in having an endless debate about what it may or may not say in regardes to these issues. For me personally I will wait until I have a copy in my hands of the official translation into English before I worry about what it may say in regards to Papal Infallibility.

Nelson,

I apologize if I've caused any offense here.

When the Catechism of the Catholic Church first appeared in French in 1994 there was much discussion of it in many places long before it was translated into English. As far as I know, there is nothing wrong with such discussions.

One reason I have asked for clarification here is precisely because there are people here who are qualified to answer: people who read and understand Ukrainian and who are members of the UGCC. I seek clarification and am open to correction about what the new UGCC Catechism teaches.

Again, if I have offended any here, I ask forgiveness.

Dave,

No offense taken. I just think that we could go on and on about what the new catechism says or doesn't say and I am not sure if that is profitable to our souls.

Asking your prayers for me.

Nelson

I'm glad I did not offend you.

I appreciate your position and it may not be profitable for many people. This, I'm sure, is a thread that is of little interest to many.

I think a respectful look at what the Catechism says, with input from those who know the language and are familiar with the UGCC, can be an interesting discussion for some people.

Please keep me in your prayers also!

I agree. I would be interested in seeing a rough (unofficial) translation of the additional paragraphs.

The translation of paragraph 291 given in the first post was disheartening to read, but it does help to settle matters when it comes to the UGCC position on the papacy. Ukrainian Catholics, unlike Melkites, are not free to hold to a more Orthodox position on the papacy, nor are the free to embrace an Orthodox ecclesiology.

To put it another way: members of the UGCC cannot affirm the position put forward in the so-called Zoghby Initiative.