www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Contraception: outdated teaching

Dear Brothers & Sisters in Christ,

I have a very, very confusing issue that I would like to discuss. Is there as much dissent amongst Eastern Catholics as there is amongst Roman Catholics in relation to the Church's teaching on contraception? I just don't get it. We have the Pope and most Bishops saying how truthful and good it is and yet it seems almost impossible to find a Catholic couple who faithfully stick to the Church's teaching.

I would be grateful if all board members (particularly females) would please share with me:

(1) do they accept the Church's teaching on contraception - if so, why?
(2) do they find natural family planning to be marriage building?
(3) do they find natural family planning to be reliable?
(4) why is there so much conflicting medical evidence at times? That is, some doctors say it is reliable, others say that it is not. I thought that medicine was an exact science which could say whether something was certain?

I am sorry for my whinging - but I am very confused. I am particularly interested in the female opinions.

Thank you so much to everyone.

In Christ, Paul.

PS: Also, what is the Orthodox position on this issue, exactly?

[ 01-23-2002: Message edited by: Paul Stevens ]

Dear Friend,

The Orthodox Church, as a rule, doesn't like getting involved in people's bedrooms!

John Meyendorff (+memory eternal!) once wrote to me to say the Orthodox Church has a different position on contraception than the Catholic Church and that this is up to the couple to decide. Abortion is quite the other matter and the Orthodox Church joins with the pro-life movement in opposing this.

A Catholic Canonist who later became a bishop told me the official teaching of the Catholic Church concerning contraception.

He then said that the way it is applied to individual cases, especially in the confessional, is another matter.

He said he's absolved people who have come to him who use artificial contraception, who otherwise try to live a good Catholic and Christian life, but who, owing to their circumstances, cannot do otherwise.

This is, I am informed, what often happens in confessionals.

Very often, individual Catholics may not even mention this in confession, regarding it as a matter of private conscience.

Another theologian told me that such Catholics may be acting in "invincible ignorance" and so are members in good standing in the Catholic Church.

Please don't shoot the messenger here.

I don't use contraception, I want to have children!

Alex

And may He fill your quiver with many arrows, friend!

Before the server crash, there was a thread about Orthodox and Catholic views on birth control and contraception. I'm not sure if you can search for it, since I've searched for other pre-crash threads and couldn't find them, but if you can, and someone finds it, I'd like to have the link posted so we can read through it again, and perhaps have some more discussion on the matter.

Hi Paul,

I'm married to a Paul, too.

I haven't taken a poll of ByzCath couples on this issue. I suspect that adherence to the Church's position is more or less the same on the Eastern side of the house as on the Western, but there's less noise made about it.

As for your questions, yes, we use NFP. I wouldn't have two of my three kids if we didn't. We didn't always use NFP, but early on in our marriage, we found that I was one of those folks who could not safely use any "modern" ABC methods, so we decided to give NFP a whack. The Lord uses whatever avenues He can to work conversions...

Is it marriage building? I guess so. Nothing is perfect for everyone, and I'm sure different couples have different views, levels of involvement, self discipline, etc. Remember, some folks think the only result of fasting is to make them ravenously hungry. OTOH, forgive my bluntness, my experience (and not everyone is like this!) with oral contraceptives led me to believe that the reason they worked was because they turned me into such a bitch that sex was out of the question. That's not exactly marriage building.

Is it reliable? Barring special cases & circumstances (which may require additional finesse) yes, it's reliable, ***IF*** it's practiced appropriately. NO method of contraception/family planning works if you don't follow the directions. Americans on the whole are not known for patience, diligence or staying on task.

As for reliability in *helping* to conceive - well, my husband is somewht disabled, and for the last several years was dealing with some long-term injuries. Let's put it this way: If you only have a couple of opportunities per month, and you want kids, NFP gives you the best chance of maximizing those opportunities.

Why is there conflicting "evidence?" I would suggest that what conflicts is opinion, not evidence. Most docs know NOTHING about NFP (or about breastfeeding, for that matter) because they are NOT taught, and because most of their continuing education & interactions are provided by drug companies, who are only too happy to provide them with the latest & greatest contraceptive pill or device (and infant formula). It's a rare doc who knows that modern NFP is something more than the old "rhythm method," sometimes referred to as "Vatican Roulette." There's plenty of evidence that NFP works, but most docs have no reason (or time) to dig it up, and very few have anybody (professional or patient) to educate them about it.

I'm not convinced that most CATHOLICS have a clue about NFP either. The one area where I would respectfully disagree with Church practice is that in most parishes, the only way to learn much about NFP is through the CCL or another group which offer classes, and only engaged/married couples can take the classes. I think there should be more avenues, and more availability. Incidentally, I've never been to a class. I bought a book (horrors! It wasn't Catholic!!) at a natural food store some years back. It didn't have any theology in it, but it laid out several different approaches in a clear, friendly fashion, with plenty of examples, diagrams, charts, etc. The Church has no patent on teaching women to track their fertility signs - and my learning style corresponds better with the book than with group classes.

Hope this is responsive.

Cheers,

Sharon

Sharon Mech, SFO
Cantor & sinner
sharon@cmhc.com

Paul,

Although I'm a man, I'll gladly answer your questions. My wife and I have been practicing NFP, and we really like it a lot.


(1) do they accept the Church's teaching on contraception - if so, why?

Yes. I believe that artificial birth control paved the way for the so-called "sexual revolution." The end result of this is that most Americans (and Catholics) no longer clearly associate sexual activity with the conception of children. Thus, sex has *primarily* become a recreational sport in the public culture. And when pregancy unintentionally occurs (no contraceptive method is 100% effective), abortion frequently becomes a convenient alternative.

(2) do they find natural family planning to be marriage building?

Absolutely. For one thing, because I take my wife's temperature and chart her cycles, I am far more in tune with her body. Also, this requires us to communicate more often about our sexual life. Plus, the periods of abstinence can be great times to find other ways to express affection. It is nice to be able to snuggle every now and then, knowing that it will not lead to sex.

(3) do they find natural family planning to be reliable?

Most certainly. It works very well, provided that you use it correctly.

(4) why is there so much conflicting medical evidence at times? That is, some doctors say it is reliable, others say that it is not. I thought that medicine was an exact science which could say whether something was certain?

My father-in-law is a family physician and former medical scool professor. He used to routinely prescribe oral contraceptives until he experienced a deeper conversion several years ago. Since then he has stopped prescribing the pill, and encourages couples to practice NFP. He has studied the effectiveness of NFP, and is convinced that when used properly it is 99% effective.

God Bless,
Anthony

[ 01-23-2002: Message edited by: Dragani ]

Dear Anthony,

Yes, the periods of abstinence when you know "snuggling" or other intimate encounters won't lead to sex can be wonderful and can even lead to better satisfaction when one does have it.

Even sexual counsellors are advocating fewer, but better encounters of the sexual kind.

There are lots of things one can do that can increase intimacy without sex.

I would share my list, but I don't think it would be appropriate.

So you'll have to trust me . . .

Alex

Paul,
Can a Scot break in here ?

I taught NFP for about 10 years and found that most of my 'clients', once they had become proficient in it's use were enthusiastic about it.

I would say that our new clients all came because they were reccommended by word of mouth. Here it is usually taught on a one-to -one basis and yes we emphasis that is it a method for both partners to use.

We were possibly unusual since our organisation did teach single women the method as well as one of the huband /wife couple[ here the men seemd to be somewhat shy !] the Clinic I worked in also found that we were teaching Moslem couples - though that was fraught with danger as the Interpreter came too !

Not only that but we did go into Schools and give an outline to young girls and boys [ sorry should have said young people !] and that initiative, by the time I left was bearing fruit .

Doctors here are as ignorant as elsewhere - they say they don't have time to teach - noonsense they do if they want , what they mean is it's not financially worthwhile ! And as we all know money counts !!

Angela

[ 01-23-2002: Message edited by: Our Lady's slave of love ]

+Glory to Jesus Christ!
Glory to Him Forever!

Paul,

Welcome!

As a married lady (we are a Byzantine Catholic family ), I venture to respond to some of your questions!

1) Do I accept the (Catholic) Church's teaching on contraception?

Yes, I do. And so does hubby. To come to accept the teaching, and even moreso to put it into practice, does take some getting used to, helped by prayer, God's grace, plenty of time to understand, and some good and patient explanations; especially if you do not come from a Catholic background, or some other background where artificial contraception is not used, or not commonly used. I know this from experience! :-)

One of the things that I have explained to people in the past is that the point of Catholic marriage, without artificial birth control, is not to have as many kids as is biologically possible, with no thought to prudence and responsible stewardship. Rather, the point is to let God plan your family for you, and trust that He will do it right! Of course, God has given us the gifts of reason and discernment, and has made us aware of the rhythms of our fertility. Hence, if we have a serious enough reason to think that a certain time would really not be the best time to conceive, we can abstain from sex at that time, during the wife's fertile period. There is nothing at all unnatural about making love one day, and not making love the next day. That's perfectly natural and perfectly cool. The same goes for the couple who really wants kids but just hasn't seemed to be able to conceive yet. They find out when the wife is most fertile, and make love then, hoping to conceive sooner. Perfectly natural, and cool.

However, the mindset and intentions a couple has while using NFP, for either purpose (conceiving or not conceiving) is integrally important. Herein lies the answer to the question that is sometimes asked: "Well, what's the difference between NFP and artificial birth control, when either way the purpose is to prevent conception? Why can we use one and not the other?" While abstaining for the express purpose of not conceiving, the couple HAS to keep in mind that even if they think it isn't the best time for them to conceive (and it is very possible that they are right about that), that God still may, in His infinite wisdom, have different plans for them, and may intervene at any time with the gift of a child. And they have to be open to that. That is the difference between NFP and artificial birth control, when NFP is used properly--you leave the door open for God with NFP, and have more trust in Him, which is much less likely to be the case with artificial birth control. The NFP attitude should be "We don't think this is the best time to have a child, so we will abstain. But if God does want us to have a child at this time, we are open to that, and God will help us." Or, "We are really hoping to have a child now, but if God still wants us to wait, we will wait, and He will help us!"

A wise friend of mine, who is herself a mommy, explained things very simply this way--using birth control is like saying "God thinks we're ready to care for a new immortal soul now, but we don't think so." Likewise, using certain far-out medical fertility procedures--like saying, "God doesn't think now is the time to give us a new immortal soul to care for, but I/we think we're ready!"

I guess the bottom line is that the creation of each new person by God is a great miracle. The time when He chooses to do so (or not to do so), while still great and miraculous, is shadowed in comparison. To leave the door open for Him to work that miracle, if he wants, even when you may not think it is the best time, is the point of not using artificial contraception. God is always right, and I am often mistaken. I would much rather have Him plan our family for us. Whether I think it is a good time to have a child or not ultimately doesn't matter as much as God's opinion. If I think it is not the optimum time for a child, but God does, then it is the optimum time for a child! And He will help me see that! Likewise for couples trying hard to conceive.

This takes much trust and prayer, and God will help with everything! God knows you better than you know yourself, and He will give you as many kids as He knows is best. That's why you have some non-contracepting people with no kids, some with one or two kids, and some with several! God has custom-tailored each family, with wisdom, and with great love for each of them! :-)

4) Why do some people say that NFP is reliable, while others do not?

I am assuming that they are referring to NFP's reliability as contraception. As Sharon said above, may people use NFP to learn about when they are most fertile, so that they will have a greater chance of conceiving. An NFP book I have seemed to allude to the possibility of some NFP statistics not taking into account the fact that some couples use NFP to try to get pregnant. Thus it's possible (though I'm not 100% sure this is the case) that you could have a survey saying "Of the couples who used NFP, n% of them got pregnant. So NFP is only y% reliable as a contraceptive method." However if there was a survey taken exclusively of couples who used NFP for contraception, the percentage could be different. Also, as Sharon said, people could just not know very much about NFP and assume it's the "rhythm method" or something else that has a reputation for not being a reliable contraception method.

However, NFP is in actuality supposed to be quite reliable for either purpose (conceiving, or not conceiving)...however it's ultimately up to God. Conception was designed by Him to be both natural and supernatural. We do our natural part, and cooperate lovingly and trustingly with His supernatural part! The natural and supernatural are interwoven here beautifully, and each is integral.

Perhaps I have just met some really cool families, but most of the ones I know and am pals with seem to follow the Church's teaching on this quite faithfully! Apparently there are many who do not, though. We must pray for all of them--those striving to live in accordance with the Church's teaching, those who don't know of the Church's teaching, and those who oppose the Church's teaching.

Anyhow, I hope this was somewhat helpful and that I didn't go off on too much of a tangent...please excuse the long response, and thank you for being patient enough to read it!!

I hope this helps you!!

God bless you,
Liz :-)

[ 01-24-2002: Message edited by: Liz ]

[ 01-24-2002: Message edited by: Liz ]

Sorry, double post. Please see the post below.

[ 01-24-2002: Message edited by: Kelly ]

Hi Paul,

Just adding my thoughts on your questions.

I do accept the Church's teaching on contraception. There are many reasons why -- including recognizing and honoring the authority of the Church in this matter and having read and being in agreement with Humanae Vitae are just two of the reasons.

I am not yet married (and am not sexually active), but I believe it will build up my marriage. My fiance and I are in an NFP class now, and he charts my temperatures and observations. This requires me to share intimate information about my body's daily functioning and fosters communication between us about fertility, family planning, and other matters. Already, our study of NFP has built up our relationship, and I anticipate the benefits of NFP will increase when we are married.

From my reading and conversations with families who use NFP, I think that it will be reliable if it is used properly (meaning: accurate observations, charting, etc. and following the "rules" of NFP where applicable). Of course, God's design is beyond our greatest plans, and we ought to use our fertility to collaborate and cooperate with God's plan, rather than to attempt to thwart His plan.

I have thought of one example of the reliability of NFP that I can share: Recently, we were anticipating my menses, and one morning, my temperature dropped (this is a sign that one's menses will start). That morning, as I am accustomed to, I was going to relate my temperature reading to my fiance. This time, though, I first told him that my menses would start that very day. He asked whether my temperature dropped, and I confirmed that it had, giving him the reading for the day. Later that day, my menses did start. I'm not sure that I can put it better than my fiance did when he said something to the effect of the following: "I bet you haven't ever been so confident of the exact day your menses would start." It was so true.

As for conflicting medical information, I'd suggest you look at the exact studies in question. It is easy to dismiss something when one doesn't know much about it, which is often the case with NFP. Whether you're trying to achieve or avoid pregnancy or even if you're just charting in the event you have a need to avoid or are feeling called to achive, NFP is 99% effective if it is used correctly.

Paul, you're probably aware of this organization: the Couple to Couple League [ccli.org] is a good resource for information on NFP, both in aiding in the explanation of the Church's teaching and in the instruction of NFP.

May God be with you and yours!

[ 01-24-2002: Message edited by: Kelly ]

Hi folks:

The original question Paul posted mentioned "dissent" among Catholics (I'm going to use the term collectively for all our churches in union with Rome). I find this interesting. Here's why:

There is an organization that runs ads in our local subway that imply the Catholic bishops don't care about people's lives because they don't support contraception. I don't agree with these ads. I looked at the sponsoring group's (Catholics for Choice, I think, was the name) website for enlightenment.

Their main argument seems to be that if many Catholics don't agree with Church teaching, then Church teaching must be wrong. HUH?!!

Since when are opinion polls the determinants of Truth?

This doesn't mean that I think the teaching is easy to accept. It is generally far more convenient to fall into sin. But what kind of service would the church provide to the faithful if it didn't provide some guidance to help us avoid the occasion of sin?

Just my thoughts,
Annie

Dear Annie,

You are right, of course, but contraception has not been the burning issue it was when Pope Paul VI was around.

But I am one of those who don't care about contraception.

Why?

Because I want children!!!

(No kidding, really).

Alex

Alex, not intending to pry, but you may want look into one of the NFP models to try to acheive pregnancy if you and your beloved haven't already investigated/use one or more of these models.

While NFP can be used with a contraceptive mentality, it can also be used for procreative purposes.

You and your wife are in my prayers... may your quiver be filled with many happy, holy children (physical and/or spiritual children).

Dear Kelly,

Thank you and we are looking into that.

I am told more than firm resolution is needed on my part . . .

O.K. I'm going home . . .

Alex

Hi,

I just noticed this thread and as a women with 3 children and post minapausal I would like to add something not stated.

Birth control pills actually cause the fertilize egg to abort. It does not keep the egg from being fertilized. It is not able to attach to the uterin wall and is expelled. Therefore, an abortion is actually taking place.

I don't believe that the teaching is as much to keep couples having children as to prevent death. As someone else stated it was the beginning of the culture of death.

When I understood what happened, I was very upset, though I had only used pills for 3 years, there is a possibility we destroyed human life. I spent much time in prayer and confession.

Using NFP is great. The simplest way is to watch secretions, you will come to understand the rythum of your body.

Also, some else pointed out that you will become stronger in your relationship with each other and Jesus. It gives you a new understanding of life and each other.

Rose