www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology 12 Ideas to Cultivate a Vocation Pipeline within the Church

These points of improvement are actually kept by the Orthodox, and not in touting EO, it seems to me, as best I can determine, that the Latin Popes and Heirarchy saw the strict determination of 'celebate only' priesthood as akneejerk reaction to the ever increasing effect of the 'reformationist' movement...which started long before one Martinus Lutherias came on the scene. This 'counter reformation' as I have come to believe, took on a life of its own (as most reactionary movements do....I have been there/done that...!) And,many negative things, including the haughty attitude of 'us REAL catholics'..looking down long noses at our Greek Catholic ancestors, treating them as the despised Orthodox, even tho they venerated/prayer for the Latin Pope every liturgy and do so today. For me this is a very depressing thing, for I am personally torn betwixt our ancestral profession and this obvious elitist attitude toward of "Hunkie' forbears. Certainly does no good to mending the rift between East/West, and increases the wedge the radical right-winger Prots' cults and sects are driving ...with much sucess..into the hearts of our Slavic heritage in the former Soviet states. Do we fight a common enemy... the anti 'Traditional' movement rampant since the Communists stepped down? I do not know the answer, but , I believe, people are being duped in to Hell's fires by many of these groups. And, I for one am to blame, for I, decades ago , supported the wackos that want to send the 'real' Chirstian faith, to those 'benighted Slavs under Communism". (Lord has mercy+++,...on me.) Thanks, for allowing my semi-rant/semi-confession, S Bohom, mik (private returns welcome)

Prior to the 1848 abolition of the feudal system in the Autro-Hungarian Empire this was in fact the how most Greek-Catholic priests lived - manual labor jobs and priestly duties. The average Rusyns in such eparchies as L'viv (now Ukraine), Peremysl (now Poland), and Mukachevo (now Ukraine) were far too poor to fund a 'dedicated' priest in their parish.

Perhaps history is repeating itself.

IF

Worker priests are ideal for starting new parishes. I hope someday our bishops will recognize this.

CDL

I do apologize if what I posted sounded like sarcasm. I was only suggesting methods already being used. Are these methods sarcastic in themselves or is my pointing them out? I will no longer post on this topic. The original twelve ideas in the original post sound refreshing, if not wine (not whine) in old wineskins.

Joe

Admin.

Good points you make. After this past Sunday, my wife was ready to walk out of church never to return. And I wasn't even there.

I apologize if what I post sounds sarcastic. But do tell me what I post sounds sarcastic if these are methods currently being employed? The sarcasm about attaining foreign priests to fill the void came from the pulpit. I can only reflect and question.

It seems that sarcasm is more disturbing than those who lie. You already seem to imply that the Church is unfair. I agree. What does Christian principles have to do with Church anyway? I probably should look elsewhere for better examples.

OK. I have been quite sarcastic about several things for some time. I agree. I have given myself three years to hear if Christ is preached. When I figure that Christ is not a topic who will be preached then I will leave my Church and you won't have to hear from me ever again.

My wife already has a new spiritual home picked out. I might take her up on it.

The Church is not an company which appreciates marketing strategies or wine in new wineskins. It is a hierarchy of ordained who have jobs-for-life, therefore no need to improve or ask if improvements are necessary. It is the human condition. This is the union mentality and why some folks go postal when there job is taken away from them.

I will refrain from posting on this topic any further. Thank you for the hickory stick.

God bless,
Joe

Joe,

Even if everything you say is true there are two things that need to be considered:

1. What are we going to do about them?

2. If you do have a vocation why aren't you pursuing it in areas where your vocation is accepted?

I do sympathize with some of what you have presented but there comes a time when actions speak and words are useless or worse than useless. Many post here who are not BC so don't worry about it if your path moves you out of the BC Church.

CDL

As someone who's met most of the seminarians I know I'm not worried in the slightest about the coming up priests. All of them are good men who I would gladly have as a pastor in any church.

With the men that we have now in the seminary I believe that it won't be long before more rise up to not only replace but increase their numbers. Have faith people, God is helping us right now.

Gordo,

Here are a few remarks on some of your points:

1. Open up all vocations to married men.

Agreed. There is no shame in going back to your roots, especially if the practice was quite common before the Vatican put the restriction of an unmarried Eastern Catholic priesthood on North America.

2. Allow married priests to work outside the parish.

I agree with Dan's post. My only question is, once the practice of building new parishes/areas is up and running, how will an area populated with worker-priests be able to pastor to the parishes to standard? Not that it might not be possible, but the posts till now seem to be a bit skeptical of a normative role for worker-priests in an eparchy.

3. Ordain men from specific communities for those communities.

Presupposing #1, I cannot see families moving around too much. The laity need to take a more active role in the parish and take responsibility for its many needs. Though priests cannot do everything to keep a parish up and running by themselves, there is a greater sense of continuity when people "grow" leadership in their area over a sustained period of time. Let them reap the benefits of their sowing.

5. Leverage the traditional and organic leadership development path within the church.
Our church has a marvelous tradition of organic �stages� of leadership development.

Agreed. When I was in college a few years ago, I heard a lot of my peers considering the (Latin) diaconate, and many seemed willing to compromise being priests so that they could be married. Shame... I fear their call is to an active role in the diocese be it priest, deacon, or layperson. That being said, do you think that men will begin to assume roles in minor orders to increase their stature in the church and community as a gain without the full committal (which now reminds me of my good friend who called his own church, Episcopalians, JV Catholics: Catholics without the commitment)? That type of sentiment in active Byzantine men would be the only reason I would say nay to #5.

I am delighted to see this thread is going so well since it could be many threads...

Cyril, Roman with a whole bag of ideas for the Byzantines yet stumbling over the questions of Rome & Co.

Glory to Jesus Christ!

Hi Nathan,

I presume you are referring to Ss Cyril and Methodius Seminary. If so, can you tell us how many seminarians there are at present?

Thanks a bunch,
Michael

Nathan,
Seeming that the seminarians were at Uniontown..
Mike, I can't remember from Uniontown. I'd guess but I dont want to assume.

There are currently 5 seminarians. There are also 15 to 20 students taking various courses, as well as the Diaconate Program, and the Metropolitan Cantor Institute.

Dear Administrator,

If sarcasm can provoke you to produce such succinct posts as the one you made above, then mroe power to you (and Joe)!

I guess I'm somewhere between your B) and C) . . .

As for your conclusion that life isn't fair . . . I'm working on that one . . .

Alex

It is true that we have about five seminarians, it's a good start for a dying church for now. Those five seminarians though are some of the holiest people I know I've ever met, God's with them. That's enough for me, as it should be for everyone here. I'm not saying that plans shouldn't be made, they should, but yet with things as they are, I'm not terribly worried.

Five won't even keep up with the retirements or medical/other leave. A net reduction in clergy has been present for some time and at this rate is guaranteed to continue.

Gordo, very sensible ideas indeed, and I have nothing but agreement to share. The great success of Orthodox mission parishes with married men working another job to support the ministry stands for itself.

The Church is formed from families, from domestic churches. When they are strong, the parish will be strong and vocations, either parochial or monastic, will not be lacking. That's where it has to begin.

John/Harmon - I don't really see any points to be made with your "cautions" - how many full-time RC priests have been laicized, haven't worked out (I've known several myself), with full preparation often in the best institutions in Rome. Our church is barely on life support and we need a serious jump-start. It absolutely has been demonstrated to work amongst the Orthodox. It is quite simple - if we don't move in a new direction ala Gordo's ideas, it seems pretty much all but over.
DD