www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West "Melkites to Ordain Married Men in US"

Thank you, Neil, for the suggestions and I've fixed (hopefully) those points.

If others notice anything else, please let me know.

Thanks!

From what I've read I think I would like Bishop Samra. I ran across a follow up article here [uscatholic.org] which raises some interesting points. I'll quote the parts that I found interesting.

I was surprised to read this in the CNS story.

So, if the Latin Rite hierarchy do not complain, the Eastern Congregation issues dispensations.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
I think the wiser path would be for the Council of Hierarchs of the particular Church to approach the USCCB (US Conference of Catholic Bishops) to work out any potential objection, and to put it on the agenda if necessary.

In this way a precedent is set which would be harder for any one bishop to object.

Many blessed years,
Fr Deacon Paul

The way I read Archbishop Vasil's statement I think it's apparent that the US and Canada have no objections to the Eastern Catholic Churches ordaining married men to the priesthood in those countries. So, I think the dispensations will continue for those countries. I think the only issue that could come up is if the ordinand was formerly Latin-Rite.

The situation is less favorable in Italy, however.

Glory to Jesus Christ!

For such a critical issue, ordaining without a "courtesy call" could run into a controversy if only one RC bishop objected. It was tried by Archbishop Judsen and look what happened. I agree with you that generally the US and Canada have no problem; that is why it's best to follow the USCCB route.

It's time we put this behind us; we shouldn't be reckless. It's true that we are only repossessing what is our own, but you wouldn't take something from the government which they took away illegally without going through the appropriate channels. If Bishop Vasil's statement is accurate it appears that Rome has given itself a way out of this unfortunate mess.

It think it is not secret to say that H.E. Metropolitan Judsen's bigest problem was his own brother bishops. The carry on among them, when photos of him wearing a white klobuk at the HRM pilgramage (when they were at Newberry Springs,CA)on the internet.

The question I have is this:

Why should there be an agency processing papal dispensations over this? Is this what Orthodox would have to do in a reunited Church?

If a miracle of the Holy Spirit happened and our Churches were reunited, would Orthodox Bishops in Western lands need to have their ordinands vetted by Rome? Would there have to be the concern of "Sorry, you were originally Latin Rite -- so you can never be ordained in an Eastern Church"?

Well, that's the point--the entire Vatican approach is utterly incoherent. On the one hand, we see Latin bishops--in Rome and elsewhere--transferring underused churches to various Orthodox jurisdictions, as an example of fraternal charity to a "Sister Church", obviously not placing any preconditions regarding the marital status of the priests who will serve there. On the other hand, we see Latin bishops--in Roman and elsewhere--actively trying to suppress the married priesthood within Churches already in communion with them. What are the Orthodox supposed to think of this? How can they avoid concluding that all of Rome's talk about not seeking subordination or assimilation, but true communion in the Holy Spirit is nothing more than cynical bunkum?

Archbishop Vsevolod of Scopelos, on several occasions, remarked that he was frequently approached by Eastern Catholic hierarchs with requests to raise certain issues for them before the Holy See, their attempts to work within the Curial bureaucracy having been met with indifference. Apparently, the felt that Rome would be more attentive and accommodating to an Orthodox bishop, than to a bishop from an Eastern Catholic Church. Did they not see the effect this would have on the Orthodox, Vladyka said: "How can we believe what you say about respecting our Tradition, if this is how you treat Churches that are already in communion with Rome?" Apparently, Vladyka concluded, they did not. There was no consistency or coherence to their policies and practices.

This is going to be an issue for the Orthodox even if this issue is resolved....probably for the next millenium. It's time we get this behind us and grow together. The anti-Christians who are growing in power delight in these disputes.

Fr Deacon Paul, Dave Brown-

the USCCB has already decided the issue of married candidates to the priesthood, cf. Program of Priestly Formation, 5th edition, 2006. Paragraph #66 reads in part "An applicant for the priesthood must testify that he is not married or, if he is married, he has the approval of the Holy See. If an Eastern
Catholic candidate is married, a certificate of marriage is required along with the written consent of his wife (CCEO, c. 769§1, 2°) and the approval of the Apostolic See..." Of course our eparchs are aware of this since Metropolitan Basil was a member of the Bishops' Committee on Priestly Formation and the Program was approved by the full body of bishops in 2005. So it would appear that US Latin Bishops have no qualms.

So the question boils down to what exactly is "the approval of the Apostolic See"? I do not have the answer, but one can only assume some type of approval was given so that Deacon Joseph Marquis could be ordained to the presbyterate for the Eparchy of Parma. Fr Joseph is the Pastor of Sacred Heart Byzantine Catholic Church in Livonia, MI, is married and by the looks of his surname is probably not a cradle Byzantine Catholic. So apparently approval is not impossible.

Dave asks about a reunited Church and if the Orthodox would be subjected to the same. Who knows, but I'm sure that would be vetted by the Orthodox.

In all of this we here in the US tend to forget that Rome (and yes that includes the Church of Rome) operates on the philosophy of la bella figura. I'm not saying this is right, it's just how things work in Rome. Any perceived "confrontation" needs to be dealt with out of the spotlight to avoid "scandal." In my opinion, it's not that the Eastern bishops are confrontational or, as some would say, testicularly challenged. The problem lies with the mostly amateur pundits who report without undertsanding all that is involved. As a result the uninformed reporting finds its way to an even less informed audience.

So here's what is official: the ban is in effect in the US, unless the Eastern Catholic candidate has approval from the Apostolic See. So is there really a ban?

Fr Deacon John,

Thanks for the further clarification. I was unaware of that publication. For those interested, it's here. [old.usccb.org]


For the US (and apparently Canada), I would say it doesn't look like there's much of a ban at all. I think the only issues that might come up are if the candidate had originally been Latin Rite. But, as you say, it looks like in some situations it may not be a problem. (That might depend if the individual had been baptized in a Protestant church before becoming Eastern Catholic -- that's one of those tricky canonical questions sometimes.)

The situation is different in other countries -- for example, Italy. The bottom line seems to be how the Latin Rite episcopal conference feels about the issue.

How long ago? A year? Five years? Twenty-five years? It's really none of Rome's business, unless it does not trust the Eastern Catholic Churches to properly oversee the selection and spiritual formation of its presbyteral candidates. Which is what Rome would be saying in such a case, isn't it?

In essence I will continue to say, in effect, in North America there is no ban. The issue is the eparchs who are afraid to Ordain Married Men. Personally, I think they don't want to deal with the Pani's. They can be tougher to deal with since they are not signing loyalty oaths at ordination.

I wonder what is possible to find out about other countries? We know in Italy the Ban is still in effect. I believe I've read it is also in effect in Poland (at least in the Western part of Poland). Does anyone know about other countries in Europe? South America?