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#373382 12/21/11 06:46 PM
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It may be my imagination, but it seems that Eastern Orthodox laity have more ministerial opportunites than Byzantine Catholics do..is this my imagination? I notice that EOs have Frederica Mathewes-Greene, Barbara Pappas, Frank Schaeffer, etc...even when I go to the library, I do not see any "offerings" by Byzantine laity as do I see RC works by Scott Hahn, Marcus Grodi,and so on...why is this???

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Originally Posted by volodymyr
... it seems that Eastern Orthodox laity have more ministerial opportunites than Byzantine Catholics do ...

I'm not entirely clear what you mean by "ministerial opportunities". Given the backgrounds of the respected and accomplished individuals noted in your OP, my first reaction would be to reflect on the loss of "family-based tradition" we have suffered as Byzantine Catholics in America, given the imposition of celibacy on our clergy. It comes as no surprise to Byzantine Catholics who have had exposure to married clergy in their Rite (rare as it was) that wives and children of priests from Orthodox traditions become leaders of their churches, as pastoral leaders in their "family" parish, lay theological authors and scholars, or as clergy and religious. Their religious life is inextricably interwoven with their family life from an early age, to the benefit of their own soul and to the greater good of their religious communities.

Last edited by Curious Joe; 12/21/11 07:19 PM.
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On the other hand, in certain Eastern Catholic jurisdictions one finds a stifling degree of clericalism which positively deters people from taking on leadership positions beyond the traditional kitchen duties, bingo hall and school of religion. That I know several laymen who had very excellent ideas shot down in a very public and insulting manner by the hierarchy merely reinforces my perspective.

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Originally Posted by StuartK
On the other hand, in certain Eastern Catholic jurisdictions one finds a stifling degree of clericalism which positively deters people from taking on leadership positions beyond the traditional kitchen duties, bingo hall and school of religion. That I know several laymen who had very excellent ideas shot down in a very public and insulting manner by the hierarchy merely reinforces my perspective.

Yes, regrettably this is true too often, as well. In my initial reply, I could not help but first reflect on the common (clerical) family backgrounds of each of the individuals mentioned in Volodymyr's OP. That said, we can all most assuredly recall several such instances where laymen were so treated, often resulting in them being driven away to other folds.

Coincidently, earlier this evening, I stumbled upon an older thread relating to + Cardinal Newman, where you shared the following thought …

Originally Posted by StuartK
There will always be a warm spot in my heart for John Henry Cardinal Newman, because of his observation, "The laity are those without whom the Church would look silly".

Amen!

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There are a lot more Orthodox than there are Eastern Catholics in this country. Interesting that RC authors mentioned are both converts from Protestantism. The same can be said of a large number of the Orthodox writers particularly at Conciliar Press.

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Off-topic, but a happy birthday to our brother, volodymyr, and may God grant him many more years in health and happiness.

Many years,

Neil


"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
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Happy Birthday, volodymyr, and Many Years.

Bob

JimG #373416 12/22/11 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by JimG
There are a lot more Orthodox than there are Eastern Catholics in this country. Interesting that RC authors mentioned are both converts from Protestantism. The same can be said of a large number of the Orthodox writers particularly at Conciliar Press.

Frederica Mathewes-Greene and her husband were both Episcopalians before coming into Orthodoxy, Barbara Pappas I'm not familiar with, and is Frank Schaeffer the same Frank Schaeffer who used to be a well known fundamentalist? smile

Many years, volodymyr!

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Many years, volodymyr!

Back to your OP, I cannot think of any Byzantine Catholic laity who have become widely known theological authors or scholars. Nor can I speculate as to why that may be the case.

A possibility - half the battle in understanding the history of the Byzantine Ruthenian church (among others, UGCC, etc.) is understanding our history as a people (e.g. what's a Rusyn?); in other words, there is a need to understand the ethnic identity as well as the religious heritage. There are a few scholars who have written on the history of the Ruthenian (Rusyn) people, including good coverage in their work on our interwoven social and religious history, most notably Professor Paul Robert Magocsi (author of one of my favorites, "The People from Nowhere").

However, there are only so many times that one can point out that Andy Warhol was a Rusyn ...

... and this certainly isn't theological authorship!

It's indeed interesting that the people you had identified, in addition to having current or past family ties to a religious tradition, were not "cradle Orthodox", as pointed out in a few posts throughout the thread. Could a conversion experience perhaps put one in a better position (perspective, desire, etc.) to write about their faith experience as opposed to a lay person who remains within a faith tradition from cradle to grave?

I'm thinking of an unrelated example, but one popular book (at least among curious Catholics) on Mormonism was written by Isaiah Bennett, a priest who converted to Mormonism and then converted back to Catholicism.

Last edited by Curious Joe; 12/22/11 06:04 PM.
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I'd think Fr. Protodeacon Paul Weyrich was roughly comparable to Frank Schaeffer in prominence and was also involved in writing about politics.

Catherine de Hueck Doherty would be another prominent Catholic laywoman. Not entirely clear to me whether she was technically Russian Catholic, but she was certainly influenced by her Russian background.

(Though neither were Rusyn.)

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Not to beat my own drum too much, but ...

How many Orthodox or Roman Catholic laity have ...

Founded a publishing company that has produced over 200 books in the last 15 years?

Provided Sunday bulletin covers with color icons and theological commentary according to the Byzantine Church calendar on a weekly basis to 300+ Catholic AND Orthodox parishes reaching some 40,000 families for the last 12 years?

Founded and organized ecumenical conferences for Catholic and Orthodox lay persons to attend on an annual basis for 15 years?

Founded and produced a media ministry with over 200 hour-long programs of lectures, liturgies, theological books, and special events throughout the Eastern Christian world on a streaming video website, and made those programs available in CD and DVD formats?

I'm no scholar, but I produce and distribute the stuff that scholars write! Is that not a ministry for the laity?

Jack Figel (Byzantine Catholic layman)
Publisher, Eastern Christian Publications
Chairman, Orientale Lumen Conferences
Executive Producer, Orientale Lumen TeleVision

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And oh, by the way, I'm 100% Carpatho-Rusyn with all four of my Greek-Catholic grandparents born within 20 miles of Presov, Slovakia in the Carpathain Mountains.

Jack

JLF #373427 12/23/11 03:40 AM
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Thank you for speaking up, Jack. Your contribution is profound. It's had a huge impact on my life. Many, many thanks!

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I think Jack is living proof of my statement regarding the attitude of the hierarchy towards lay activism. It's as though they are afraid that the laity taking the initiative in anything will result in the stewardship problems of the 1930s.

JLF #373441 12/23/11 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by JLF
And oh, by the way, I'm 100% Carpatho-Rusyn with all four of my Greek-Catholic grandparents born within 20 miles of Presov, Slovakia in the Carpathain Mountains.

Jack


Yea! Me too, although probably 40 clicks as they say! And my children as well! (although their paternal grandfather's family was just over the border from Medzilaborce in Transcarpathia, we'll be OK with that! wink

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