www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Semi-tricky question

Hi, It's been a few years since I've posted here: got into Facebook and haven't been on bulletin boards as much.

However, I came up with a kind of interesting question that I thought I'd ask for help here on.

I am a member of the Secular Order of Discalced Carmelites. As far as I know, the Eastern Churches don't have an equivalent of "Secular" Orders in the West. I've been practicing Byzantine prayer privately for several years now, and attending services when I can (I now live very close to a Byzantine church but it's a question of scheduling).

I love praying the Paraklesis and Moleben services privately. I know that, technically, some parts are for priests only, but I figure if it's private, it's OK, and if it were an equivalent prayer service in the Roman Church (not that we have anything quite like those exactly), it would probably be OK for a layperson. Either way, it's "private," so no big deal.

Now, here's the trick. As an OCDS, I'm under obligation to pray the Office, specifically Lauds and Vespers.

A little over a year ago, I got a smart phone, and it's provided a fantastic resource for prayer and not having to deal with the whole "carrying prayer books around/misplacing them/prayer books get destroyed" dilemma. I have the DivineOffice.org app, an app for Coptic Agpeya and some PDFs of Byzantine Horarium.

I've found, though, that I really love the Coptic Agpeya and get a lot out of it. Some times, in my private/public-through-my connection to the Order prayer, when I have the time, I'll actually pray Vespers in all three forms, and it's quite fun!

But of course, that's a "sometimes" thing. One of the great things about the OCDS Constitutions and Statutes is that, even though Carmelites are all about prayer, our Order is very big on not taking on too much.

So, that leads to my question. I figure that if I can fulfill my Mass obligation by attending any valid Mass, I can fulfill my Office obligation by praying any valid Office. I know there are parts of the Eastern offices, again, that are reserved for priests, and some parts are reserved for deacons, etc.

In the Agpeya instructions I read, it said that some parts are reserved for priests, deacons, OR monks. So the question is: does my status as a member of an Order qualify me as a "monk" for those purposes, or do I skip those parts?

Not that I'm some kinda expert but I bet in private recitation of the Agpeya, you ought to feel free to pray the texts that appeal to you. Those directives you mention are probably meant for public sessions of the office.

The main thing is the prayer and not the nit-picking rubrical details. And while you're praying it, kindly include me and all the posters on this forum. Thanks.

Honestly, if you've chose to be OCDS, you should consult your spiritual father on this. He may not be able to help you with rubrics, but I think he can give answers to many of your questions.

As far as the rubics go, in the Byzantine tradition there is such a thing as a service without a priest, in which case the priests parts are omitted. I believe this is because many of the priest's prayers are there because of the priest/bishop's (vice the other ministers') liturgical role in the community.

Yeah, that's why it's tricky. It kind of pertains to the two Codes of Canon Law, plus the OCDS Rule/Constitutions, etc.

Previously, it was called the "OCDS Rule of Life," but the Order decided that "Rule of Life" should be reserved for the four great Rules of Benedict, Augustine, Francis and Albert. None of the other Orders uses "Rule of Life" for its secular arm, so they changed it to OCDS Constitutions--we live under the Rule of St. Albert, and the Constitutions explain how we modify it.

The Rule of St. Albert obliges the Brothers to say Morning and Evening Prayer, minimally, or to say "25 Our Fathers" if they cannot.

The OCDS Constitutions say, "Morning and Evening Prayer or other suitable prayers" if inconvenient.

Most Roman Catholic priests don't understand the obligations of a Secular Order--they think along with most laity that Secular Orders are just like glorified social clubs or whatever. They think we're being scrupulous when we come to them and confess not saying the Office like we should, or whatever.

My community's president says the most important thing is the requirement to a half an hour of Contemplative Prayer. As for meeting the obligation, he was quite enthused about the fact that I have the opportunity to pray in community. I also learned recently that a local Roman Catholic parish (it's only 10 minutes from my house but in the opposite direction from where I usually go) has Morning and Evening Prayer every day as a parish.

But since the concept of "liturgical prayer" versus "private prayer" is different between East and West, and the rubrics for such services are a bit different, I'm trying to figure out what's kosher for a Roman Catholic trying to be a little biritual.

In any case, I find the Agpeya in particular to be very spiritually uplifting and a much more convenient way to make sure I'm praying the Hours.