www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology How can I find out who my Bishop is?

I didn't mean to imply that I'm doubting the information that was given, I just meant that - I really, really hope it's true. lol. Since I don't have a Russian Catholic parish or a Russian Catholic priest I could ask, it's really hard to find information, since not everyone knows about this rite in detail.

I was wondering though... we know that parishes are territorial. So for a Latin rite Catholic, "their parish" would be the parish nearest to them. Same with let's say, a Ukrainian Catholic. But - for a Russian Catholic without a parish and who's under the care of the Latin Bishop, - technically speaking what is "my parish"? :s is it the closest Latin one? is it the closest Eastern one? I hope I do have one...

Also, many Eastern Catholics are telling me that - I'm supposed to follow the fasts and feast days of the Eastern Catholics. An Eastern priest and I think another one that I emailed long ago, told me this too. So - I am trying to. But then someone brought up a Latin canon: that if a Catholic is away, they can adopt fully for themselves the feasts and fast days that are in place where they are staying. Why doesn't this apply to me? I was told that it does, then others are saying it doesn't? That's why it's all so confusing, there's no consensus. What situation is this speaking about? Or does it apply? See that's still unclear.. however I do follow the Eastern fasts and feast days, as well as the Latin ones, lol, since it seems strange to skip the major feast days in the parish that i attend. Not sure if that's wrong or not.

About switching to Latin rite - that would make it easier considering that I don't have a parish of my rite. However I did ask a (Latin) priest who I went to spiritual direction for, and he asked the Bishop, or the Chancellor (I can't remember) - and I was told that it's not really important for me to do that right now, maybe in the future though. I don't quite remember if I was told that I have permission to follow the Latin calendar - or if I was told that I can, anyways, without needing a special permission (which goes back to my old question). One of these days I'm planning on speaking to a priest again just to see if he'd recommend switching, unfortunately it's not very easy right now to contact the other priest I spoke about.

You suggested just living like a Roman Catholic without applying to be one, but if I'm bound to follow Eastern laws by Canon Law, I wouldn't really feel comfortable ignoring that... among others, an Eastern priest told me to keep following the Eastern fasts, which is what I'm trying to do. (even though some others are saying the opposite).

I think you're getting caught up in the legality. Eastern Canon Law does not mean a thing if you're not intending to live an Eastern Christian faith life and even then it really doesn't matter, what matters is practicing the faith and living out the spirituality.

If you sought out joining the Catholic Church via the Roman Church, then live the Roman life, don't worry about Canon Law.

Monica,

Once again, I'm going to come across as the 'bad guy' because, once again, I'm going to tell it to you as it is! It is not that I like doing so, but maybe, just maybe, you'll listen this time.

There are more persons knowledgeable about the Russian Greek Catholic Church (not Rite - there is no such Rite) on this forum than on any other forum on the web. That I can guarantee you, because I read every Eastern forum on the web and I 'know' the vast majority of regular long-time posters at most of them.

There are several regular posters here who are of the RGC Church, including the priest of one RGCC parish in the US. As well, there are a significant number of Eastern Catholics here with long-standing ties to and interest in our Sister Church, for which we have particular affection because of its essentially 'orphaned' status - given that it is without hierarchy of its own.

That you continually put aside this information ("I really, really hope it's true."), using the excuse that it (the RGCC) is somehow 'unique' ("it's really hard to find information, since not everyone knows about this rite in detail.") versus other other Byzantine Churches says to me that you are less interested in hearing the answers offered than you are in continuing to beat around the bush on the question of being Eastern versus Latin and doing so by fixating on the legalities to an extent that is not spiritually helpful to you (and is absolutely not indicative of how the Canons are intended to be applied - they are not intended, were never imtended to be applied by self to self.)

Make up your mind! We cannot do it for you. You've consulted clergy. We've quoted you chapter and verse of the Canons to try and satisfy your insistence on reverting to questioning us on them. You can live a Latin or an Eastern spiritual life. Some people manage to live both or to integrate aspects of each. I personally don't think that you can do so, at least not the way you approach it.

There are two groups here of those who successfully live both or integrate aspects of each. One consists of Western Christians (I won't limit it to Latins because it includes, among others, a highly respected Lutheran pastor) with a profound love of things Eastern but who either lack the opportunity to live a full Eastern spiritual life due to locale or for reasons in their personal life (e.g., a spouse who doesn't share their interest in matters Eastern) cannot fully do so.

The second group are Easterns geographically separated from the opportunity to fully participate in the life of their own Church. We have many active members in both groups, members whose presence and participation here add much to the fora and who are respected greatly.

The two groups aside, there are others, chiefly Latins, who 'dabble' - treating Eastern spirituality and worship as if it were a cultural experience to be sampled like any other tourist attraction or like visiting ethnic restaurants in and about their town.

You defy categorization. At one and the same time you want to be Latin but you believe that you cannot legally be and you are bound and determined to believe that the Canons preclude you being what you should be doing - living the spiritual life to which you want to called. As one among those who first told you that you were Russian Catholic by virtue of having translated from Russian Orthodoxy, I sincerely regret that I ever did so. It kick-started a carousal from which you refuse to dismount.

As regards territoriality -

The concept of territoriality of parishes is barely recognizable these days in the Latin Church.

There was a time when parish boundaries were either very fixed and defined (back in the days when most major cities in the US and Canada had a church in virtually every neighborhood) or were national (based on the ethnicity of those being pastorally served). These days, national parishes are fewer and farther between, as their congregations have dispersed to the suburbs, resulting in closures and mergers. And territoriality has given way to folks choosing the parish they'll attend based on liking the form of the Mass served there, the priest, the travel convenience, ease of parking, whatever. I'm not sure about Canada (where there are still a fair number of national parishes) but, in the US, it's a rarely enforced concept except when it comes to parish school registration, and often ignored there if the parent is a contributing attendee of a parish community.

In the Eastern Churches, historically, the basis was not territoriality per se, but ethnicity and oftentimes the village of origin, if one lived in a city where there was, for instance, more than a single Ukrainian parish.

And, back to your enduring quest ...

Please, for your own peace of mind and soul, decide which life you intend to practice - realizing that, if it's Eastern and you are going to live it to the extent of regular attendance at Divine Liturgy, etc, you are going to have to decide to do so within a non-Russian spiritual community.

In Canada, your choices as to being a member of a worshipping Byzantine Rite community are limited to Ukrainian, Romanian, Hungarian, Slovak, or Melkite parishes. And, which of those are available to you is dependent in large part on your georgraphic locale - with the choices being significantly fewer the futher geographically east you are located.

As a practicing Latin, your choices in Canada are unlimited.

Many years,

Neil

If you don't want to take Irish melkite's advice and simply attend either an eastern Church (non-Russian) or a Latin one without doing anything in terms of a canonical transfer, you have to make a choice. Either be Latin (apply for a transfer, and specify that it will be for your spiritual benefit to remove the problems that this Russian question is causing in your mind) or be Russian and try to build an environment that will allow you to feel that you are living the Russian (as opposed to melkite, Ukrainian, etc) Catholic life better. If there is no Russian church, you could try to build one slowly, such as by doing reader's vespers yourself and inviting people and trying to build one.

But I really sense you want to become Latin, which is fine. Some easterners won't like it, but ultimately it is not up to an eastern priest, a western priest, an eastern layman, or anyone else to comment on what is right for you and your situation. If you feel it would be spiritually beneficial, and remove some stumbling block in your life, write to your bishop (the lain diocesan bishop of whatever diocese you live in) and ask him to transfer you from the Russian to the Latin rite. Ultimately, this is not about what's right, wrong, or in canon law, but what is best for your spiritual life and health. If you feel that being Latin rite would be most beneficial, do it.