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My guess is that when the boxes stopped being used as moneyboxes, they started taking on various fanciful forms both in iconography and real life. I've seen them shaped like little churches and towers, no doubt in imitation of the tabernacles…

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Ed, my friend,

If they WERE money boxes, I do not see the connection between money boxes and incensing. I can see a logical connection between an incense box and incensing. This latter would explain why in iconography deacon are (in most cases) only shown holding them while holding a censer in the right hand.

It also does not account for their use by non-deacons in monasteries; I have to go through my files, but I have a photo of a nun with a katzion in her right hand and a small church-shaped box in the other.

Fr. David

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Originally Posted by Chtec
If they WERE money boxes, I do not see the connection between money boxes and incensing.

hmm, good incense is expensive? (to say nothing of the charcoal ... )

Bless, Father David,

Sorry, but I couldn't resist biggrin

Many years,

Neil


"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
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Originally Posted by Chtec
Ed, my friend,

If they WERE money boxes, I do not see the connection between money boxes and incensing. I can see a logical connection between an incense box and incensing. This latter would explain why in iconography deacon are (in most cases) only shown holding them while holding a censer in the right hand.

It also does not account for their use by non-deacons in monasteries; I have to go through my files, but I have a photo of a nun with a katzion in her right hand and a small church-shaped box in the other.

Fr. David

Fr David-

my first thought was if these were money boxes, then perhaps the deacons must have been taking up the collection while making the great incensation. Then I thought if the practice is retained on Mt Athos, why would the hierodeacons take up a collection from monks?!?!

I'm not trying to be flippant, I really want to know...

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Originally Posted by Deacon John Montalvo
Then I thought if the practice is retained on Mt Athos, why would the hierodeacons take up a collection from monks?!?!

Exactly.

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Archbishop Chrysostomos of Etna has offered some provocative thoughts on the history and meaning of this artifact in a short article entitled "Brief Notes on the Κιβώτιον" and published in Orthodox Tradition (Vol. XXVII No. 1 [2010], p. 14-18). That issue is available online here [synodinresistance.org].

Esteban

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Hmm. Explained thus, their origin as incense-boxes works for me!

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Thanks so very much for this post Esteban.

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I have to say that the discussion itself has been most interesting. I also was delighted that it attracted postings from more than a few highly regarded old-time members and friends from whom we hear all too infrequently.

Many years,

Neil


"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
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You're welcome, Father David! I'm only too glad to share obscure bibliographical bits that would otherwise be quite useless. smile

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Like Estaban, I too love sharing the obscure biggrin .

On another forum, a discussion was ongoing regarding the Armenian praxis of deacons wearing mitres on certain occasions and a link was posted to an 18th century Armenian icon of St Stephen, Protodeacon and Protomartyr. St Stephen is depicted with a zion in his left hand and censer in his right. I thought it might be of interest here as well.

St Stephen [historyarmenia.org]

Many years,

Neil


"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
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Originally Posted by Irish Melkite
On another forum, a discussion was ongoing regarding the Armenian praxis of deacons wearing mitres on certain occasions and a link was posted to an 18th century Armenian icon of St Stephen, Protodeacon and Protomartyr. St Stephen is depicted with a zion in his left hand and censer in his right. I thought it might be of interest here as well.

St Stephen [historyarmenia.org]

Many years,

Neil

The censer and Zion are of similar design, reinforcing the point made upstream that prayer and service to the poor are the pricipal aspects of the ministry of a Deacon.

As for the mitre, I can understand that best through my Western eyes as I consider that the cloven Western-type mitre is understood to represent the tongues of fire manifesting the Holy Spirit on the Day of Pentecost. The Acts of the Apostles repeatedly describes +Stephen as being "full of the Holy Spirit" so a mitre (of any design) strikes me as most appropriate.

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Neil: Do you really want to call that a 'discussion' on the other forum? That's giving it too much credit, IMHO!

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I just had a cheeky thought - what if the object now called a Zion is the conflation of the moneybox and incensebox after both ceased to be of practical use?

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Ed, rather than the conflation of two items in the past, I am starting to wonder if the modern Russian usage of "Zions" is a modern conflation of an disused liturgical practice in the Russian Church (the Большой Сион) with an unrelated Greek/Athonite practice of carrying the incense boxes.

Google "Большой Сион" and see what you come up with.

o. David

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