www.byzcath.org Forums Mysteries: The Life of Worship Vespers, Matins & the Divine Liturgy ARMENIAN DEACONESSES

Ordination of Tbir (Dbir)

"Ordination" of Ourarageer:

Ordination of Geesasargavak (subdeacon):

Ordination of four acolytes and one subdeacon (wearing manipulum and not orarion this time):

http://easterndiocese.smugmug.com/Parishes-of-the-Eastern/St-Mary-Church-Hollywood-FL/20610314_2kgTNP#!i=1633706833&k=vhXH9kQ

He is not wearing a maniple. He has taken off his ourar (orarion) and is holding it over his arm. The maniple has never been used in the Armenian ritual. The bishops and priests wear cuffs similar to the other oriental rites.

This is correct. I am looking for a fuller description of the minor orders to post here.

THankyou Francisco and Thymiato - so the ourageer, subdeacon and deacon all wear the stole in exactly the same way (straight down over the left shoulder)?

Ordination of 31 New Deacons in the Mother See of Holy Etchmiadzin

Ordination of 30 deacons took place in the Mother See of Holy Etchmiadzin

ՍԱՐԿԱՒԱԳԱՑ ՁԵՌՆԱԴՐՈՒԹԻՒՆ - Deacon Ordination - September 25, 2011

My Deacon Ordination

Mother See of Holy Etchmiazin - Deacon Ordination - July 17, 2005


We can agree to disagree but for me its quite clear that the candidates to the diaconate (subdeacons) during both the election and the ordination ceremony are wearing something (a vestment) quite similar to the maniple (ourar used as if it would be a maniple). Do not forget that during the ordination of deacons in the Greek byzantine tradition the "zoni" of the subdeacon becomes his first "orarion" as newly ordained deacon. In the same way the "orarion" becomes "epitrachilion" as the deacons becomes priest (one vestment two names).

St. Mary Armenian Apostolic Church
45 Hallcrown Place
Toronto, ON, M2J 4Y4
Canada
2011-05-29 (Acolytes) Subdeacons and Deacons Ordination
http://www.stmarytoronto.com/index_...eacons%20Ordination/arm_article_long.php
Please notice how ourar in form of maniple is given to the newly ordained subdeacons and how subdeacons candidates to the diaconate wear the ourar in the same way at the begining of the ordination service:

http://www.stmarytoronto.com/articl...0and%20Deacons%20Ordination/IMG_6813.JPG

http://www.stmarytoronto.com/articl...0and%20Deacons%20Ordination/IMG_7128.JPG

Thanks for that Francisco.

Francisco, they are holding their ourars over their arms before the Bishop vests them at the end of the ordination rite. We do not have, nor have we ever had maniples in the Armenian Rite, as I noted above. Please do not read Latin customs into a rite where they do not actually exist.

Dear Thymiato (censer in modern Greek if i am not wrong):

The Latinisation of the Armenian rite is a well known phaenomenon studied by scholars and recognized by the Armenian Church.
At the site of the Mother See of Holy Etchmiadzin talking about the history of the Armenian you can read about Kavazan Hovagan (Pastoral Staff or Pedum):

"During the Latin Council of Antioch, in 1141/2, to which the Armenian Catholicos Gregory III was also invited, theological and ritual differences between the Armenian and Latin Churches were discussed. Returning to Rome the Pope’s envoy, praised the Armenian Catholicos and his brother Nerses Shnorhali to Pope Innocent II.The Pope of Rome wrote a letter to the Armenian Catholicos, in which he recognized the Orthodoxy of the Armenian Church and for the complete unification of the two Churches suggested that the Armenians should mix water in the Chalice and celebrate Christmas on the 25th of December. Innocent II also presented the Armenian Catholicos with an Episcopal staff, which began to be used by bishops. The eastern Greek-Cappadocian staff was used by archimandrites only".

http://www.armenianchurch.org/index.jsp?sid=1&id=60&pid=10

The word "Pazban" (meaning priest´s cuff)is translated as maniple in at least two armenian orthodox sites.

http://armeniandiaconate.org/photos/files/page2-1006-full.html
http://armenianchurchsydney.org.au/learning/church-vestments/

As far as I know all these armenian vestments and vessels has to do with the Cilician period (Armenian kingdom of Cilicia) of the Armenian rite and with the contacts of the Armenian Church with the Latin (Latin influence can also be seen in the Armenian Divine Liturgy and the introduction of the confiteor at the begining of the ceremony and the reading of the prologue of Saint John at its end):
1. Jajanch - Reliquary (this particular kind of reliquary later become the monstrance of the Latin church)
http://armeniandiaconate.org/photos-2/files/page3-1009-full.html
2. Kavazan Hovagan (Pastoral Staff)
http://armeniandiaconate.org/photos-2/files/page3-1010-full.html
3. Korbura - Corporal (from the latin word "palla corporalis")
http://armeniandiaconate.org/photos-2/files/page3-1019-full.html
4. Ardakhorag - Infulae
http://armeniandiaconate.org/photos/files/page2-1000-full.html
5. Khoyr - Bishop's Mitre
http://armeniandiaconate.org/photos/files/page2-1003-full.html
6. Vagas - Amice
http://armeniandiaconate.org/photos/files/page2-1014-full.html
7. Madani - Ring

Apparently the shape of the "Nshkhar" (the Eucharist unleavened bread) and of "Maghzma" (Paten) has to do with this phaenomenon.
The Latin influence can also be seen in the armenian "Srpadoop" (Holy Box).
http://armeniandiaconate.org/photos-2/files/page3-1025-full.html
http://armeniandiaconate.org/photos-2/files/page3-1023-full.html
http://armeniandiaconate.org/photos-2/files/page3-1028-full.html

On the other hand the Greek or Byzantine influence can be seen at vestments and vessels as:

1. Kavazan Vartabedagan (Priest´s Staff)
http://armeniandiaconate.org/photos-2/files/page3-1011-full.html

2. Emipohrohn (from the Greek word homophorion)
http://armeniandiaconate.org/photos/files/page2-1001-full.html
3. Pilon - Phelonion (here only the name is Greek)
4. Banageh (Enkolpion)

I humbly consider that the influences of so many and so different liturgical traditions made the Armenian rite unique in many ways.

I hope, Thymiato (Poorvar in armenian if I am not wrong), you will not find offensive my words.

Dear Francisco,

Please do not misunderstand me. I do not take offense at what is posted here. I am merely trying to present an accurate interpretation of what is seen in the photographs.

I mentioned the fact that our priests use cuffs in my post above. I only take issue with the identification of an unused, folded orarion as a maniple, which it manifestly is not. My good friend was ordained a subdeacon last summer and was invested with the stole over his shoulder, not his forearm.

Photographs and websites only give a hint of what our Liturgy is like. Studying these images alone one would conclude that our church was wholly Latin in orientation, rather than based in the Syriac and Jerusalem Traditions, as is actually the case.

I invite you to visit one of our communities someday to experience our traditions and to enjoy our hospitality.

Dear Θυμιατό (Բուրվառ),

There is no Armenian Church in the place where I live in this moment, in fact there is but one single Armenian Church in the country where I am living now, but during the seven years I spent in Greece I used to attend different liturgical services in the local Armenian Church (Սուրբ Աստուածածին Եկեղեցի), where I always felt at home althought at the very begining I just could understand few words, such as "Օրթի" and "Պռօսխումէ" that fortunately were just Greek to me. May I ask you why Thymiato (apparently in Greek) for username?

Bless you