www.byzcath.org Forums Mysteries: The Life of Worship Vespers, Matins & the Divine Liturgy Female Readers/Lectors in the Byzantine Ruthenian Catholic Church

This concept of tonsured readers being "preferred" is not the ideal of the modern Russian Church; it happens, but it is a misinterpretation of the office. A Reader is not ordained to read the apostol (this would be like saying a deacon is ordained to recite litanies); he is ordained to minor orders (and actually the ordination/ tonsure subsumes a variety of orders, such as acolyte, chanter, etc) because he is being set up apart in the "first order of priesthood", that the candidate may "render themselves worthy of greater ministry" (prayers from the ordination of a reader).

In regard to the tonsured reader not being the preferred reader, and the role of untonsured readers and women reading in church see:

http://www.holytrinitymission.org/books/english/liturgical_rubrics_1.htm#_Toc70898604

Otsheylnik: that's interesting, I'll take a closer look and think about it.

So it seems some Eastern Catholics / Orthodox feel lay readers including females are perfectly fine and should be used even when males are available (even tonsured males). Others don't think so - that females should be used if needed. Is there any appeal to authority? Or does everyone accept that a bishop or pastor can decide this for his individual territory / parish?

Hi Newyorkcatholic:

I accept my pastor's decisions, and whatever he directs, prohibits, or allows. I remember asking him if it was okay for a church singer to drink some water in the morning even if you're planning to partake of the Eucharist, because it's very hard to sing for two hours straight without a drop of water in your mouth. I have asked him a ton of questions, and he is always quick to respond, and not necessarily in a categorical manner. In his turn, Father has much respect for the long standing traditions of our (unique) parish. For example, every year at the Nativity Vespers service, the entire choir consisting of our ordained deacon, tonsured reader, and other men and women, take turns chanting the readings, one by one.

I have a great respect for and faith in my Pastor. If I have any questions about anything, what I do is email him. If he says he wants me to chant, I'm chanting; if not, I'm stepping to the side. That is why he is the pastor and I am in his flock; I guess it is a blessing to have a pastor about whom you feel this way.

That does sound great! How it should be!

newyorkcatholic,

As Pavloosh is not a Latin Catholic I can excuse his inaccurate terminology up thread , but you should be well aware of the need for accuracy.

You said
You mean you do not want Priests / Deacons administering the Holy Gifts ?

Christ is in our midst!! He is and always will be!!

I think we need to get some terminology sorted out.

A "Eucharistic Minister" comes in two forms: ordinary and extraordinary. The ordinary ministers of the Holy Eucharist in the Latin Church are bishops, priests, and deacons. Lay people--men and women--are properly termed "Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion." The term "Eucharistic Minister" has been used in the past, but we've been instructed that this is not correct and should not be used to describe what functions lay people are asked to perform.

The whole area of proper terms came to those of us who have been asked to assist in this ministry about ten years ago. Such things as referring to the Holy Gifts as "bread" and "wine" after these latter have been changed into the Body and Blood of the Lord and "doing the dishes" when referring to cleaning the sacred vessels after Liturgy--we've been instructed to watch our language so as to avoid confusion about who we are and what it is we are doing. Of course, you'll always have people who "didn't get the memo."

There has been much criticism about having lay people distribute the Holy Gifts. The reason behind this practice was to facilitate the distribution during Liturgy when there is a large group. I've been to Latin parishes in the years before this practice became normal and had an extra half hour added to the time when a single priest tried to commune in excess of 700 to 1200 people. It happened. I've recenlty been to parishes so large that even with half a dozen priests and deacons together with another half dozen lay people the distribution of the Holy Gifts took a great deal of time. I don't know how people are to be served in these situations.

Prior to Vatican II, the distribution of Holy Communion often took very little time because of the fasting requirements then in place and the requirement of confession either the day before or within the previous two weeks. People didn't commune as often and the large crowds simply came by, watched, and went home.

Bob

Glory to Jesus Christ!

I understand your apprehension; its hard to chant in public for the first time, whether male or female. I sugest that you talk to your pastor and/or cantor about chanting on a minor feastday or a daily DL/Presanctified DL/small funeral, etc. Its much easier and if you make a mistake not as many people are there to hear it. As your confidence and ability build it will become easier and the skeptics will slowly accept it.

Thank you for volunteering to learn this valuable vocation.

Fr Deacon Paul

AnnaPink'd:

May I suggest another thing you might try in addition to the excellent advice of Father Deacon Paul. I have trained lay readers in the Latin Church for decades. I tell those I train to go to the parish church at some time during the week and read from the place they will read--to an empty house. Then walk around the place and become comfortable with the whole space to overcome their stage fright. Later, when standing in front of the crowd, mentally go back to the time of practicing alone.

You might go to your parish and chant in the midst of the church alone to get comfortable in the space. Fix your gaze on the icon of Christ and gaze at Him when you chant. Form this as your habit and it may help your uneasiness.

Bob

Oh come on! Picky, picky, picky!
Priests and bishops should be the only ones distributing the Holy Eucharist. Being handed Communion by a hand with finger nails painted fire engine red is a real distraction.
So what if the Mass is several minutes longer due to the faithful receiving Communion - many rush out of church before the final blessing anyway.
As one priest said: "The most dangerous place to be on a Sunday morning is in a Roman Catholic Church parking lot immediately after Mass".

Of course, I only want priests (and deacons only when necessary) to distribute Holy Communion.

That's why I put "Eucharistic Ministers" in quotes ... because the lay people called that are not really such by nature, they are just deputized to function in such a role in the current law of the Latin Church.

It's a disturbing practice (at least IMO) and it is abused far more often than used properly anyway.

Of course I never see them anymore, since I am always at the TLM or DL.

My uncles, aunts and cousins all were parishioners at a very large RC church in our area growing up. The senior pastor was a hard liner by any definition. Yet he would complete a Mass reverently in 22 - 23 minutes flat, with the help of his assistant pastors come time to distribute Holy Communion.

In return, he expected (nay, demanded) that everyone stay for the final blessing. He would call you out by name (yes, he somehow knew everyone by name) if you dared leave Mass before the final blessing.

At my youngest cousin's wedding Mass, as pictures were being taken, I commented to him on how mellow the pastor had seemingly become with age. My cousin laughed and said "no, he's still the same - wait until you walk outside".

Sure enough, in the vestibule over the exit doors was a huge banner which read:

"Judas was the first to leave Mass early!"

To me, the blessing at the end of a mass is special. I want the blessing, I always need it. Those words Father says: "Idźcie W Pokoju Chrystusa" - and in peace i want to be, forever. I bow my head and listen to the blessing attentively, and hope sincerely that I will be blessed.

I suggest that we stick with the topic of the thread, folks - which is female readers and lectors in the Byzantine Ruthenian Church. Though I have no objection to it broadening into the other Eastern Churches, Catholic or Orthodox, discussion of the Latin Church's use of Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion is not a germane topic for this particular forum (and is really of little or no concern to Eastern Christians).

Many years,

Neil

Sorry about the off-top, I guess I got caught up in reminiscing. I went on a pilgrimage to Czestochowa, Poland, in 2009, so I went into quite a few churches there and ever since I get emotional about the Polish-language mass.

Mariya,

Not a problem - your post was not the one(s) to which my comments were addressed.

Many years,

Neil