www.byzcath.org Forums Mysteries: The Life of Worship Vespers, Matins & the Divine Liturgy Female Readers/Lectors in the Byzantine Ruthenian Catholic Church

The Greek Orthodox Church is ordaining women as Deaconesses again ... reviving an ancient tradition.

What I have read is that they are used differently than Male Deacons.

I'm not sure what the difference is.

We are a Patristic Church - I can see the difficulties that some women have as members but I also believe there are differences in the sexes.

I won't go into details about the Theology of GOD THE FATHER - as a connectedness of God to humanity - as a reaching out of God to us ... but man THAT is PATRISTIC!

To protect myself from females attacking me - I just want to tell you about what I have experienced when a Father rejects a son or a daughter - it has life long consequences. A Father's role is different than a mother and it affects the children differently. So the Love of God The Father - as HE intended Fatherhood is a beautiful expression of Love.

I'm not sure that makes sense but that's the way I have seen it in our ever more secularized world - the truth is that men and women ARE different and that maybe God wanted the roles He established.

We have female cantors but our Deacon Candidate has taken over the function of reader for now and no women are doing it.

I've seen them do it in every Byzantine Church I've attended so far though ...

Mariya, I am a bit confused, are you for women who chant of the apostol (Epistle) depending upon the church/jurisdiction or do not think this is a proper duty for women to chant?

Hi Joy,

Regarding the Epistle - I've never seen a woman read the Epistle at any Orthodox Church, and I don't know about Byzantine ones. So I have no opinion on that... Certainly this decision is up to Church authorities - and their decision is binding on the faithful.

Got ya, in the Byzantine Churches women are permitted to chant the apostol, I am one of them and it is a great honor to do so, as for the Orthodox church and the rules they have, I cannot comment on that either as I do not attend an Orthodox church but have, in the past, read the hours prior to Liturgy during my attachment to a choir that travelled from one church to another, and, at SS Peter and Paul under Father Eugene, I read the hours all the time there and it did not seem to break any "rules" but, that was then I suppose.

While growing up in the 60's and 70's one never heard a woman read the epistle - I suspect that was true in Orthodox and Byzantine Catholic practice. (re: JEK - while I understand you meant Byzantine Catholic when you used the term - 'Byzantine Churches' to a non BCC reader that might imply Greek or Arabic Orthodox practice as well, so it is a good practice for clarity sake to add Catholic or Orthodox when using the term 'Byzantine'.)

It no longer strikes me as unusual for a woman to lead chant or to read the epistle. I have observed this in a number of different Orthodox jurisdictions, including ACROD. While it still may not be the norm, it certainly is not 'prohibito per se.' Perhaps in some of the more traditionalist Orthodox jurisdictions this is not the case. For many, many years there have been women choral directors in both the Orthodox and Greek Catholic churches here in the States. What is the difference then between a cantor and a choir director?

I'm guessing it's still okay, because I've heard Matushka Valerie read these prayers (are they also called the hours?) that are being recited while the congregation leaves the church after liturgy.

Understood DMD, mea culpa, I assumed the word "Byzantine" would be understood within the context of the thread, I have read the hours, directed (Cantor and Choir Director) in many Orthodox (ACROD, ROCOR and MP) and Byzantine Catholic Churches in America and, Greek Catholic churches in Slovakia and have read the apostol as required, I assume it all depends upon the church itself and its traditions and, what the requirements happen to be. Thanks for your comments!

Hi Mariya, Not sure what goes these days on Sundays, last I visited (a long time ago) a choir member read hours, the other I believe wore a cassock but was not tonsured that I was aware of and read prayers at the end of Liturgy, which, I do not ever recall being performed years ago. All in all, its all interesting to remember these memories of times gone by. Thanks for your input!

The choir member reading the hours must be Donald Freeman, who is soon to be married to Jennifer, she was Catholic but recently entered the Orthodox Faith. She sits up at the choir loft with us and with her son. They are a beautiful couple, a beautiful family.

The choir member wearing a cassock - I know who he is, the name escapes me - I think he has a reason for wearing it, not sure of details, but I can ask him one day. I will choose a moment when such a question should not make him feel uncomfortable, but rather express an innocent interest in his special garment.

I fell in love with this church and made it mine, became a parishioner 3 years ago, just paid dues for the 4th time, for myself as well as for Mom and Brother. I trust and respect Father Stephen, and I am comfortable with the congregation, and its diversity. It's fewer of us than before, people are older, not as able, but the same spirit of Unity in Christ. I am proud of having the honor to serve as a chanter to these outstanding people

I am very glad you are happy with your church, we all need to find a church we are comfortable with and that addresses our spiritual needs. Since I have not visited there in a long time I really have no idea how things are these days but, am sure the church will continue no matter what direction it goes in during the future. The idea behind paying "dues" I could never figure out but, I suppose it is a practice for some churches, I have seen it done in some places but not in others, just depends upon the local custom I assume. I recall a lovely girl that used to sing in the choir that married a man who was Jewish, I hope she is still in the choir as she had a very lovely voice. Thanks for your thoughts.

At Holy Trinity Gk. Orthodox Church in Dallas, it's normal for young ladies (I presume GOYA members or students in the parochial Greek School) to read - not chant - the Epistle. One of them does it in Greek & the other in English. After the reading, which takes place facing the congregation, they both go and kiss the hand cross extended to them by the celebrant.

At St. Basil's in Irving, both men and women chant the Epistle. Very often I can hear & understand the women better since it seems to me their voices/diction are clearer.

How lovely sielos ilgesys, what a beautiful tradition to kiss the hand cross after the reading!

In our tradition (Greek Catholic/Byzantine) the reader stands in the middle aisle facing the altar and chants (sometimes they read too but not generally on a Sunday) then receives the blessing "peace be upon you reader", etc.

The Cantor who has guided me always said the first important rule is to chant/read clearly, slowly and enuciate every work so people can understand what the message is.

Thank you again for your thoughts!

I normally read the Epistle in English every week after the chanter does it in Ukrainian . He chants from the front of the Church and I read from my place - about half way down.

Sub-deacon John chants the Gospel in English from the front - before he arrived I read it [ with the Bishop's blessing ] from the front of the Church facing the congregation. Sub-deacon John always venerates the Gospel Book afterwards - and so did I

What a lovey tradition Our Lady's slave! It is fantastic to see so many women who are blessed to undertake this great honor!

At St. Vladimir Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church in Scranton PA, various individuals read the Epistle including women, men and children.