www.byzcath.org Forums Mysteries: The Life of Worship Vespers, Matins & the Divine Liturgy Female Readers/Lectors in the Byzantine Ruthenian Catholic Church

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I can appreciate Mariya's comments, I was called upon three or so times by Mariya's church to read the Acts of the Apostles on Holy Saturday evening (after performing Saturday Matins/Reserrection services at my own church) as that is a tradition in that church and because there was absolutely no one who volinteered, wanted to or would offer to do so and the priest was in a jam to find someone to perform this duty. I chanted non-stop for about three hours by the Plaschanitsia (thank God for a very kind and gracious member of the parish, this lady kept me supplied with water, coffee and juice as she was at the church office taking care of matters), I was the only preson in church by the way. If it is fine for women to perform services when no others wish to, I dont understand why people in some churches have issues with women chanting (which has much more beauty and grace IMHO than reading), the apostol, etc.

I agree with the we dont want you really but, we will use you if we have no one else to fill the gap (even when there are others who should be doing the job if a church has a director, choir members, etc).

I agree with Mariya's comment, if there is no one to perform the service for whatever reason and if no one is going to show up for it, cancel it.

Слава Ісусу Христу! - Слава на віки!

Hello
I have not read all of the past entries but I was wondering, what happens in the women's monastery? Do the nuns act as readers and lectors and would they chant these?

Unworthy
Kolya

Yes Kolya, Slava Isusu Christu, Slava Na Viki!

Good deduction Kolya, very good, I am sure in my humble opinion they do, otherwise, I suppose the services would be pretty limited if there is no one to read as the community is all female based.

God bless you and have a blessed Sunday!

JEK

Those interested in reading a well thought out (and patristically supported) opposition to women readers should check out the posts of Father Deacon Brian Patrick Mitchell at Monachos forum. Click the link below to read his insightful comments on the issue:

Woman and the holy Liturgy [monachos.net]

Apotheoun, my brother,

Albeit far from personally espousing a feminist outlook, after having read several pages of the Deacon's thoughts on the topic of the roles of women in the Church (and society in general), I am unimpressed. Frankly, I find him wanting in the extreme in his obvious disdain for the female gender. He was clearly born several centuries too late; I'm certain that he would attribute that to being the fault of a woman.

Many years,

Neil

Apotheoun,

Thank you for posting an article you feel is important.

I read the Deacon's comments but honestly, for myself, I do not agree with him. I chant in church, I sing at funerals as a Cantor, I read the apostol in church, I have read the hours in many Orthodox churches (one being many years ago ROCOR) prior to Liturgy, directed Vespers services and sang in many a choir.

Also, I always like to recall it was women who Christ first manifested himself too after his glorious reserrection.

I will never understand this issue of women being treated in such a manner, we are all Children of God and members his church, not just some, all of us.

Thank you for your comments!

I do not - after having read his book and several internet discussions he has been involved in - find him to be opposed to the female sex; instead, he simply does not buy into the modern feminist attitude that tries to promote ideas contrary to tradition in liturgical worship. On the whole I find his analysis convincing, while I tend see those who support women's activities during the liturgy as espousing a non-Christian world view.

Perhaps you can provide patristical quotations that promote the idea that women should read the lessons during the liturgy, but I must admit that I have never - at least to this point - found anything in the Fathers that supports that notion.

Hmmm

Well I'll admit I started reading the Father Deacon's views and thought what a wonderful world he lives in.

What does he suggest happens in Churches where no-one volunteers to read / chant or otherwise serve ?

If someone is absent - no one else helps out.

This will end with the Priest [ if you don't have a Deacon - and many of us do not ] having to do the whole Liturgy himself .

Frankly I think it's time this thread was brought to a close

instead, he simply does not buy into the modern feminist attitude that tries to promote ideas contrary to tradition in liturgical worship.

Well, I am a woman, I suppose I am modern as I live in our times but I have no blessed idea what "modern feminist attitudes" are and, more important, I am not espousing any form of non-Christian world view. How can it be contrary to "tradition" if a woman reads, sings, chants, etc., in church? I am not trying to be critical here, just trying to understand the reasoning.

Also, it was not only the apostles who walked and followed Christ...

..And it came to pass afterward, that He went throughout every city and village, preaching and showing the glad tidings of the kingdom of God, the twelve were with Him. And certain women, which had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities, Mary called Magdalene, out of whom went seven devils, and Joanna the wife of Chuza Herod's steward, and Susanna, and many others, which ministered unto Him of their substance. (Luke 8:1-4)

I am sure they also told others what they heard and saw, and taught them what the Messiah had taught while they listened to him, just as they did later as the apostles went on to preach the Gospel throughout the world.

That seems to be the common answer at Byzcath when people do not like what they are reading.

I cannot speak for Father Deacon Patrick, but as I see it we should stop promoting the false notion that women can substitute for men during the liturgy and start pushing for men to act like real men.

Agreed Our Lady's slave, the threat should be ended as it will go on ad infinitum due to the various issues that were the opinions and written by the Deacon.

Perhaps you should read Father Deacon Patrick's book on this topic, because he provides a huge assortment of quotations from the Church Fathers that speak out against women reading during the divine liturgy. It was after reading through his book, and his many discussions on the internet, that I became convinced that the issue of women readers in a parish congregation was, and is, simply contrary to Tradition.

Apotheoun, yes, that is your opinion, as they say, ten people can read the bible and come out with ten different interpretations.

In the meantime, I will keep chanting.

Also, what fathers are you speaking of and are they any church fathers, priests, monks, etc., from the recent past (ie. 18th, 19th 20th, etc. centuries?)

Thank you for your thoughts and comments.

Apotheoun,

That is a very ungenerous statement to make, I have seen an entire spectrum of opinions on Byzcath and all are respected, sometimes things get a tad heated but, all opinions are respected, they do not ask any thread be closed because they do not like what they are reading.