www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Head Covering for Women?

GLORY TO JESUS CHRIST!
GLORY TO HIM FOREVER!

Sharon wrote: "Head covering is fundamentally a sign of obedience. Forced obedience is pretty useless spiritually - and an offense against human dignity. Too bad after Vatican II the attitude became "we don't have to anymore" and few cared to look into the matter further."

In most cases in Eastern Europe, it was not a sign of obedience by pratice by law. It was ILLEGAL in those areas occupied by the Tartars and Ottoman Turks for "women" to leave their house without having their hair covered; the penalty was death.

In some area of Macedonia, Bulgaria and Greece it was not safe for a pregnant woman to leave the house either. Some of the Ottoman Turks believed that a pregnant woman carried the Evil Eye and would try to get the woman to abort by striking her in the belly. Women adapted small shields into a form of beltbuckles to protect her abdomin.

In the area around Skopje, Macedonia, pregnant women were avoided altogether. The women adapted their aprons to give the impression that they were about 5 months pregnant and thus were protected from the Turks.

mark

Mark wrote:

>Some of the Ottoman Turks believed that a pregnant woman carried the Evil Eye <

Dang! My secret's out.

Curses! Foiled again!




Sharon

Sharon Mech, SFO
Cantor, Sinner & almost 21 weeks with #3
sharon@cmhc.com

I always wear a headscarf in church because that is how I was raised. I don't worry about other people's opinions about it because I'm Russian and it is well known that in Russia all women cover in church, so when I wear my headscarf I'm just being Russian! I use large mantillas as headscarves, they are very pretty and I can buy them online.

Mariya,

I dont think wearing a mantilla (i.e. headscarf) is limited to Russia, it is common for those in Catholic countries to do so as part of their custom (i.e. Italy, Spain, South American countries). Also, in some areas custom dictates a married woman covers her head and an unmarried woman does not, therefore, for myself, I never wore any form of covering, like you said, I am not concerned with others opinions of it no matter which church I attend. Of course, for the older generation, this was an important part of their worship practice.

Also, there are many shops in Clifton and Passaic that sell headscarfs and, St. Nicholas UCC in Passaic sells quite beautiful ones at reasonable prices when they have their craft fairs and various functions, I have also seen them offered at St. Josephs on Parker Avenue at their annual picnic.

Here in India, catholics and orthodox women (married or unmarried or even kids) cover their head. I have never seen anyone without covering the head. Hats are not common here. There might be exceptions for latin church in some parts.

Welcome PPJ!

Thank you for your input! As I mentioned there are different customs depending upon where one is. While my ancestors came from Slovakia, it was not custom to cover the head of an unmarried woman (it still is not in the village of my family) therefore, I never did out of resect for this village custom but also, I am an American; the custom of covering ones head is not pronounced in many parishes here.

Thank you for your comments!

At St. Basil's BC parish in Irving, TX, a few years ago some of the ladies spontaneously revived the practice of head covering. during Liturgy. Some still do it but most don't and as far as I know, no one objects one way or the other. De gustibus non disputandum.

I attended the Coptic Orthodox Liturgy yesterday and all the women in attendance wore simple veils with a cross embroidered on them. I got the impression that particular garment was rserved for liturgical use.

Once one of my grandmothers was on a team of women to help clean the parish church. She had forgotten her mantilla and I distinctly recall she attached a brown paper towel to her head as subsitute. I thought it was preposterous but hilarious.

Dear Sielos ilgesys,

More or less, this is my point, it all depends upon where one is, the custom of the parish, the people, etc. I can say with a good deal of certainty the custom will never return to my parish. Outside of a few advanced elderly ladies, even the older ladies (i.e. 70's on up) do not practice this custom any longer but of course, if someone wants to come in with a head covering or a babuska with big yellow sunflowers on it, hey, go for it, no one would care one way or the other....

Love the story of the brown paper towel, now that is precious!

Thanks, I needed the chuckle more than you know at this point.

I remember before VII it was common to see women with kleenex bobby pinned to the tops of their heads when they forgot their scarves. My mother always wore head scarves but the day it became optional she never wore one again as far as I can remember. There are a number of women in our conservative Roman Church (not traditional just very conservative) who wear mantillas and I have seen young girls in some families wearing them as well.

Jim G, yes, and, keep in mind in those years hats (for women and men) were in vogue which today has become a discarded item of attire in the churches we speak of.

I recall hearing the stories of kleenex or hankerchiefs also after young ladies would go out to a dance on Saturday night, get home late, then get up for an early Mass and forgot, well, out came the kleenex!

I have also been to a Traditional Church with a friend who attends same, they have extras at the back of the church with a sign if you forgot, help yourself or, if you are a visitor and not aware of this custom, kindly put one on, etc., the sign is worded very nice (i.e. we mean no disrespect to you but would you please honor our traditions, etc) and you cannot help but comply.

When I go to the traditional Mass (usually at a non-trad parish) most women still do not cover though some do. At places like SSPX of course it is required.

At UGCC churches I've been to most do not.

I don't make an issue out of it in my own life (my wife covers, but sometimes doesn't if she forgot to bring her mantilla, and I think that's fine I don't try to convince her to wear a kleenex, lol).

But I do think that the loss of this custom in the West is unfortunately related to the fact that it's not required in canon law.

It is still in the Bible, however, and a good and beautiful thing to do.

As a man, I would *never* wear a hat inside church, even if it was freezing. Not perfectly analogous, but anyway.

Thanks for your comments newyorkcatholic, as many have said, at this point in time I assume it is up to the person, the church, etc., the practice has definately diminished and in some places has ceased to exist.

That being said I always wonderdered for a male who is Jewish, he must have his head covered in the temple and yet, in a Christian church they do not. Just another interesting aspect of the worship of God and always neat to take in all these different practices.

Thanks for your comments!

This may sound strange but I love the look of a man in a suit wearing a yarmulke...I suppose its the nature of the juxtaposition of the secularly dressed man with the respectful and traditional religious head covering.

As for women, I really like when I go to a Russian church or a monastery and it is the norm to wear a scarf head covering.

Forgetting what it does for the others (not showing one's female adornment/shining glory/yaddah yaddah yaddah--lol-- to men, lest they be distracted or worse), it also forces one to focus more on God--the peripheral senses of hearing and vision are lessened, and therefore the focus is infront where worship is taking place. It really helps the mind not wander as much.

Secondly, by covering one's hair/aka: adornment, a woman feels less consciously or subconsciously attractive and vain. It makes me, atleast, feel like a soul in a body rather than a body that has a soul...if that makes sense.

I am not saying that I don't enjoy the trappings of femininity, because I always have and still do, but there is a time and a place for it, and suppressing those trappings when I am in a place of worship really makes me feel more holy.

Unfortunately, it is not the norm in any Greek churches, here or abroad, except in the stricter male monasteries.

I once wore a headscarf to a pilgrimage church in Greece, outside of Athens. The elderly, and very sweet and saintly priest there motioned for me to come over and asked me some friendly questions, and then asked me why I was wearing a scarf! I said that it made me feel more pious and devout. He smiled and said that 'yes, there a few women here and there who come in here with scarves as well'..(I thought to myself: they must be Russian!)

Alice,

Loved your comments on observations, its a funny thing, the village my ancestors came from it is considered not a proper thing for an unmarried woman to wear a head covering, Lord knows why or when the custom began but, thats just how it has always been there, considering here in America I do not wear one the transition over there did not make me feel different in any way.

While I can appreciate covering a womans head possibly makes her feel less attractive, vain and makes her focus more on prayer, etc., for myself I just dont see where it makes a difference in my spiritual life, now if I came to church with big earings, enough jewerly to anchor a small fishing vessel, high heeled boots, a short skirt (and I have seen that in some jurisdictions), it always made me wonder.

I believe whatever is of benefit to the particular individuals spiritual life is the key, go for it if it brings you closer to God and gives you a deeper prayer life, etc.

Lastly, yes, we have a large Jewish community in my area and I love to see men walking with their wives pushing strollers with the kids dressed to the nines in their professional business suits and a well situated kippah (yarmulke) set with great care on their head.

The yarmulke discussion makes me wonder, is there anything in the Eastern Churches like a zuchetto? That's the yarmulke-like thing that the Pope still wears (white), cardinals and bishops (red and purple) also often do when they are dressed as to their office. However priests are permitted to wear the black zuchetto, but it's so rare now-a-days. Some religious still have it as part of their habit.

There are complex rules about how to wear it. I don't know all but I know they wear it in Church, and keep it under the biretta. The even keep during much of the liturgy (I think) when the biretta would be off, but for some parts of the liturgy even the zuchetto is removed ... but I'm not sure about any of this. Just curious about in the East if clerics cover their head inside church (not counting mitres of course).