www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Head Covering for Women?

"... if I came to church with big earings, enough jewerly to anchor a small fishing vessel, high heeled boots, a short skirt (and I have seen that in some jurisdictions), it always made me wonder.

I believe whatever is of benefit to the particular individuals spiritual life is the key, go for it if it brings you closer to God and gives you a deeper prayer life, etc."

There's a lot of stress here on individuality and what's good for me, but the worship of the Church is not about me, it's the offering/work of the people of God gathered in the synaxis/sobor. What I do in worship is not just about my spiritual life, it's about that of community. This is why we should not have distraction in worship.

The old ladies in the Russian Cathedral at Rue Daru in Paris used to jingle with the amount of jewelry and irritate members of the congregation. The way we look or behave should not be a distraction to others either.

Equally, if we worship in a truly Byzantine manner, with our bodies, as well as our voices, hearts and minds (presuming we're not boxed into awful pews), we need to be dressed in a way that is practical and comfortable, particularly if services are long and we are standing.

Father Mark, I agree with you whatever brings one closer to God, if wearing a head covering does it for someone, God bless them, if not, so be it. The problem I assume is when things become the "outward" sign which is more important than the "inward" matters, adhering to the letter of the law rather than the spirit I suppose....

I agree we should worship with body, mind, etc., and I do sit in a pew but thankfully they are not narrow I do not have to stand for long periods of time but understand (and have experienced same) for those who do, being dressed practical and comfortable makes sense but, I have not seen this where the practice is at times to have long services, possibly it is a cultural thing, possibly something else but, I will leave it there as it is not part of my mode of worship and I dont want to get off topic as its the head covering topic so, like I mentioned, if it works for someone, God bless them, if not thats ok also.

Thank you for your comments!

"The problem I assume is when things become the "outward" sign which is more important than the "inward" matters, adhering to the letter of the law rather than the spirit I suppose...."

This is so true. When I was a the psalomchik in the Russian Orthodox podvorie in Birmingham we had quite a difficult time with 'New Russians' who were obsessive about some outward things and would argue about external minutiae, yet if you asked them to recite the creed they were lost!

But... there was a truly splendid display of headscarves!!!

Father Mark:

Are you sure we were not attending the same parish???

Boy, dont I know what you are talking about!

Amin to the headscarves, to each their own, I desire mercy, not sacrifice, thats my favorite one but if someone feels a headscarf does that for them, God bless them!

I should be honest, put my cards on the table and admit that despite the humour I do insist on headscarves!

In a male monastery, however, it is not a matter of personal desire, but a rule which is a must in order for women visitors to be sensitive to the life of the monk.

There are some women who don't understand that or don't want to understand that. We are also asked to cover our arms, to wear long skirts and closed shoes for the same reason. I completely respect that request, and as a guest I honour it...

That is the same reason I wear one in Russian churches, because I am a guest and I want to honor my hosts with their custom.

However, in doing so, I found something which I *personally* really liked..

I could never do that all the time. It is not me. That is why I have great, great respect for Orthodox nuns who wear the oppressive habit. Theirs is sacrifice, and though I cannot do it, I am sure that are doing something quite special.

Perhaps some might think that is 'outward' and superficial piety-- even for the nuns-- but such a mentality is what justified many of the Western nuns/orders to abandon the habit entirely. and I don't know that that was a good thing. (I heard that Pope JPII certainly didn't think so)

Just my opinions and thoughts, for what they are worth!

Alice,

Totally agreed, when in Rome.....

Of course one must respect the customs and dictates of a particular church if one is going to enter, it is also a two way street...

There are still Eastern and Western Rite Catholic nuns who wear the entire habit head to toe, they have committed to this, I have seen them in Eastern Europe and they take upon themselves the rules of their particular order and that is the same for other faiths.

I am not sure what the entire dynamic was/is for orders who abandoned their habits anymore than priests who at one time wore clerical clothes/cassock but now, go out in regular type dress, thats a very broad and deep subject I think but as you mentioned, as you could never do it, never could I, it is not me and I dont want to go into a church and follow a custom for the sake of a custom, that to me would not be proper either.

Thank you for your thoughts and opinions, they are always most interesting!

I commend you for your support of inspired Tradition on this matter.

As well you should if this is what you and others believe Apotheoun and I respect all who adhere to same, however, there are other traditions where this is not an important aspect of spirituality.

PPJ, it's good to have you here! Sometimes I listen to Indian Orthodox music and watch the marriage service where they first bless the bride and groom with crosses, and then the groom ties a gold neck around the bride's neck like a necklace, and they cover her head with a veil. Such a beautiful ceremony, and I love the hymn they sing during the service, I think it starts with the words "minnukettu"

The failure of an individual to adhere inwardly is no reason to toss away the outward sign. Holding to the empty mere external, for a time, gives the chance to develop deeper goodness. Grace builds on nature.

For proof, look no further than the gentleman who loses interest in his wife. Let him cling desperately to the externals and his marriage will improve in time. Or will we encourage him to toss aside externals on the grounds that he's just not feeling it?

And I'm not buying this "if so/if not to each his own" business. There are other people involved.

What do you mean?

I mean that setting external observance in opposition to internal observance is a mistake. Doing the right thing is the right thing to do, even when you don't feel like it, and abandoning a right practice on the grounds that you aren't internally benefiting is a sure method to see you never will benefit.

I give the example of a husband who has lost interest in his wife. If he continues to act like a loving husband, even faking it, there is an excellent chance he will end up truly being what he is for the moment only pretending to be. If, on the other hand, he acts like a single man or a man out of love, that too will become reality.

Leaving aside all examples, I generally observe that people who complain of empty observances are looking to justify bad behaviour.

Certainly I cannot force anyone to agree with the God-inspired teaching of St. Paul.

After all the Arians did not believe that Jesus is true God and true man even though Scripture and Tradition clearly teach that He is. No one can be forced to assent to divine revelation.

There will be two necklace one each of bride and groom. The part of the video is the crowning ceremony. These are put to groom and bride by the priest. The one which is put to bride by the groom is called minnukettu (minnu=pendant kettu= tying). Whatever shown in video would be same for malankara/jacobite/syro-malankara catholics.

Whatever the groom ties around bride is made from few threads of the cloth (typically an indian saree these days, In olden days syrian christians had their own traditional dress and ornaments) that is given to the bride after crowning. The pendant has a small golden cross made of small beads. The piece of cloth is later used to cover the head of bride. That time the priest tells the groom to take vow to look after and protect her till the end. Till the end of the marriage ceremony bride keeps her head covered with that cloth.

On a lighter side tying the knot is the most difficult and tense part of marriage for a groom. Grooms hand will be shivering .