www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Membership in Roman & Byzantine parishes?

Can you belong to both a Roman Catholic and Byzantine Catholic parish at the same time? Because I live in Pittsburgh, I can attend both rites at my leisure. I am currently a member of a RC parish; however, I find myself attending Divine Liturgy more ofter than RC services. Finally, this is the first year I have not attended the RC Stations of the Cross, but rather, I am attending Pre-Sanctified Liturgy on both Wednesdays and Fridays at my local Byzantine parish. I am also fasting on Wednesdays and Fridays! Do I have to pick one rite over the other? I'm a RC cradle catholic; however, my mother was a Byzantine Catholic. Anyone have some advice or insight?

Bob

Possibly one of the priests or deacons can assist you, it was always my understanding (which could be incorrect and if so, kindly forgive me) that the rite of the child follows the rite of the father, however, that being said, there is nothing in this universe to stop you from attending both churches and participating fully in all devotions you find of comfort and spiritual benefit!

So register at both parishes. Why should that matter?

Sometimes it does JDC, I assume it all depends upon the Diocese/Jurisdiction, most RC parishes I have seen are very open to joining but some BC ones I have seen give a bit of static, why, I am not positive but have seen this in the past, possibly it is now changed.

An interesting question. I'm gonna run it by one of my lady canon lawyer friends I attended the Univ. of Dallas with. Not that it's a bad thing but to be concerned about such matters strikes me as very Latin-rite-ish...

I suspect that IN FACT, you can belong to both at the same time but maybe not IN LAW.

But then again, what does it matter? Just go to both & get what you can out of them. That's why there are parishes.

It will be interesting to see what answer you receive sielos ilgesys and as I said, there is nothing in this universe to stop you from attending both churches and participating fully in all devotions you find of comfort and spiritual benefit!

Possibly the "being a member" conflicts with certain sacraments, etc., who knows, I do know at one time in the Greek Catholic church this was the norm, rite of the father, rite of the child, that was how it was.

Bob,

Both Joy and JDC are correct. We have a member here, MaryLouise who posts as likethetheif, who will hopefully weigh in on this topic, as well. She's an active member of both a Latin parish and of Our Lady of Fatima Russian Byzantine Catholic Church in SF; as well, she frequently attends some liturgical services that aren't served at OLF at an Orthodox parish.

Canon Law specifically states that even regular attendance at a parish not of one's own Church sui iuris does not have the effect of canonically transferring one's enrollment to the Church of the parish being attended. What's the effect of that?

Well, formally, it means that the individual continues to be bound by the 'obligations' of his/her Church of enrollment (in your case, the Latin Church). In practical terms, a Latin who regularly attends an Eastern or Oriental Catholic parish continues the obligation to attend Divine Services on the Latin holydays of obligation. However, that obligation can be met by attending Divine Liturgy in the Eastern parish on such days - despite the fact that feast observed is not the same.

Joy is correct in that one's Rite - more properly these days, one's canonical enrollment - follows that of one's father (unless parents of two different Churches formally agree otherwise at the time of the child's initiation to the faith). So, you are a Latin Catholic by those terms. However, if the time comes that you believe your spirituality to be so rooted in the East that you wish to canonically transfer your enrollment, there is a process by which to do so.

As a general rule, given that one parent was Byzantine, and were you to have spent a couple of years during which your spiritual life was lived in an Eastern praxis, any petition for such a change would almost certainly be acted upon favorably by the respective hierarchs.

Many years,

Neil

I will add one comment (or a few ) - it is difficult to fully participate at both. MaryLouise does so, but few can. Joy mentions the Mysteries/Sacraments. The only instances in which those would potentially be problematic, without a formal transfer are: 1. the Baptism of any child/children, 2. Crowning/Matrimony, 3. Holy Orders - none of which are everyday events.

As far as the willingness of Eastern hierarchs to consider transfers of canonical enrollment - virtually all impose a waiting period from time of involvement with a parish, to be assured that this is not a passing whim.

Other than that, there is one UGCC hierarch in Canada who sends seemingly all such decisions to Rome for its blessing - why? Who knows.

I know of no Eastern hierarch in the US who would ordinarily decline a petition from one who has shown themselves to be properly disposed - which you can translate as 'runnng to the East, not running from the West'.

I'm over 55 and that's the way it was for me while I was growing up. My dad was RC so I went to RC schools K thru 12. My mom would take me to her BC church 6 to 8x a year for family masses and during the Great Fast (Pascha).

I mentioned my interest in joining the BC's to the pastor of my BC church... he said it would require a letter from my RC Bishop and our new Cosmopolitan to "officially" change rites. I then asked him about Bi-Ritual Priests (ones that can perform the liturgy in both rites). He told me that the priest would be required to obtain permission from both the RC bishop and the BC Cosmopolitan to do so!

So... I was wondering, if I wanted to remain in both parishes, would it take a letter from my RC bishop and the BC Cosmopolitan to allow this?

I know, this is beginning to sound like a question on a Cannon Law exam

I have close ties to one UGCC parish, and three RC ones. For the last few years on Palm Sunday my girlfriend and I have gotten pussy willows at 10am, and palm fronds at 12:30pm. Technically, the only thing I'm an actual member of is the Holy Name Society at the UGCC parish.

It keeps me out of trouble.

Bob,

Metropolitan - although Cosmopolitan has a nice ring to it

What it requires is that you (not they) write a letter (the 'petition' that I referenced above) to your Latin bishop and to the bishop of the Church to which you're seeking to transfer your enrollment (they might write to one another about you, if they so choose, but that's their choice).

The letter should explain the reasons why you wish to do so - your exposure over the years to the East through your Mom, your current involvement in/attendance at an Eastern parish, how you feel that your spirituality is Eastern and is enhanced by your participation there - Divine Liturgy, icons, Eastern life of prayer and fasting, etc.

Do not bad-mouth the Latins or otherwise suggest that you are running from the West, as I noted earlier AND do not suggest that your interest has anything to do with seeking ordination as a married priest (if that was what you were alluding to in discussion with your pastor).

The letter should also indicate how long that you have been involved with/attending an Eastern parish and practicing your faith according to an Eastern lifestyle. If that period has been less than 2 years, I'd definitely hold off writing until a bit more than 2 years have passed. An accompanying letter to the Metropolitan from the pastor of your Eastern parish, supporting your request, is not only helpful - it's pretty much necessary.

Opinions vary on whether one should send letters to the two hierarchs simultaneously or write first to the Eastern hierarch, obtaining a reply indicating his willingness to accept you, and then go to the Latins. Check with your priest as to which he believes is the best approach.

If we are talking about the Metropolitan Archeparchy of Pittsburgh, as I'm sure we are, I'd let a bit of time go by - late May or so - before writing, to give Archbishop-elect William time to get settled into office. He won't be installed until mid-April.

Many years,

Neil

Whoops, just read your post more closely - 'to remain in both parishes' - you can attend both if you so choose, as I explained earlier.

You can even 'register' at each if you so choose - whatever that means - envelopes? organizations? work at the food fair/bazaar?

But, you can only formally be a canonically enrolled member of one Church sui iuris - Latin or Byzantine. Here, by "Church", I mean the institutional "Church', not a parish church.

Neil...

Thank you very much... your answer is perfect! It's exactly what I was looking for.

As a side bar, I'm in my second year in becoming a Secular Franciscan. When I told my local group that I was considering moving from an RC parish to a BC one... they sorta "freaked out" and said that I MUST talk to a RC diocesan priest before I do anything! When I mentioned this to my BC parish priest, he smiled and told me not to worry... they just don't understand who we are

And finally, I must really be tired since I am trying to turn the Metropolitan into a Cosmopolitan

Again, may thanks.

Pax et bonum!

Bob
http://www.ourladyspromise.org

Bob,

We actually have a couple of members here who are SFOs - I rather suspect that they'd be shocked at the idea that their conferes were shocked.

Maybe your fellow SFOs would feel better (or be more shocked) if they knew that the Metropolitan Archbishop-elect began his priestly life as a Byzantine Franciscan.

Many years,

Neil

Btw, isn't everybody over 55?

No! But I'm definitely too close for comfort!

Tsk - you are just a baby

I was wellover that age when I joined the UGCC and I'm one of the young ones in my parish !

Glory to Jesus Christ!

I'm not implying that it pertains to any of our posters, but I will mention a caution for those who jump to the parish of convenience. It's sort of "cherry picking," that is one to seeks the benefits of each parish community but doesn't participate in its support.

A vibrant parish must have members who call it their homes, who support it to pay the salaries, utilities and other expenses; otherwise they will close down. The personal relationships are also important. Supporting families in need, spiritual or material, and participating in activities and fundraisers is important, especially in small parishes.

Christ gave us many Gifts, but one shouldn't ateend a parish just for "entitlements."

I just want to throw out this caution for anyone who may not have considered it.

May you all have a blessed Great Fast,
Fr Deacon Paul