www.byzcath.org Forums Mysteries: The Life of Worship Icons & Iconography Neo-Byzantine icons

Nataly, I completely agree. Anyone who likes these things and thinks they are "icons" fails to understand what an icon is and what the Church teaches about the sacred images.

http://www.goholycross.org/studies/studies_icons.html

Nataly,

To answer your questions, keep in mind that Rose didn't term them Neo-Byzantine icons - the artist did that. As to why they are discussed ... it's really for the same reason that we discuss any non-traditional artwork that is presented as iconography. We can't hope to appreciate or cultivate an understanding of what an ucon is, how it should be presented, and so forth, without also helping folks to understand what is not an icon or what is questionably an icon. And, that is best accomplished by being able to compare.

As regards the pieces in question, I agree with my sister and friend, Alicia, in not liking the iconostasis, which I find more distracting than edifying or spiritually uplifting. My feelings are a bit more ambivalent about the so-called icons themselves.

Again, I agree with Alicia that the use of natural pieces of tree, versus the usually rectangular boards to which we are accustomed, is interesting and it doesn't offend me. At the very least, I find it intriguing that something which God has created for us is attempting to be used, in its natural state, as an adjunct to our prayer life. However, I must admit s certain skepticism that it may be more a marketing ploy than a conscious choice with spiritually edifying undertones.

As to the icons themselves, ... I find myself universally disliking the presentation of Christ as an adult. The depictions do nothing for me spiritually - although I'm unconvinced of any ulterior motive. They just are lacking in any sense of Godliness; I think the gentleman has tried to create a 'style' to call his own and that's not what iconography is about.

As regards the Western images (e.g., St Jose Escriva), I'm just not generally a fan of Western saints in icons, with few exceptions and none of these satisfy those exceptions.

The images of the Theotokos with the Child, however, I find to be generally well-executed, edifying, and canonically satisfactory as icons. Likewise, the full-length icon of St Nicholas, though I intensely dislike the headshot one.

All in all, I think the gentleman has talent, but needs to refine his styling of some subject matter, I won't criticize his intentions, because I know of no reason to call those into question. That he plays video games - along with many other folk in the world, including - I suspect - some otherwise very 'normal' and perhaps even holy persons, is hardly a basis for labeling him as an occultist or believing that he's falling into such praxis. (My personal opinion on such an avocation, is that it generally lacks the thrill to be had from reading a good mystery or biography, but who are we who devote hours to conversing with like-minded folk behind computer screens to say so.)

Many years,

Neil

That is why discussions like this are important. It helps people who are just starting to learn to see why they don't necessarily fit the reality of iconography, even though they may have parts of it.

Well said, my friend and sister!

Many years,

Neil

Neil,
Thank you for your answer and your polite point of view. But it’s seems to me so pity, that the theme of such intelligent discussion concerns such kind of paintings. I think, such drawings may only cause real tiredness, rejection and protest among the religious people.
I visited the exhibition in Moscow Museum of fine art yesterday. There held two tremendous exhibitions at the same time – “Caravaggio” and “William Blake”. After I visited the hall with beautiful masterpieces of the Italian painter, I went to the second exhibition with the hope to prolong my journey to the world of Christian art. Though the themes of Blake’s series of relief etching are dedicated to the Bible subjects, they seem to be far away from the deep, quite, true religious feeling, which we get, looking to the icons. In comparison with Caravaggio the drawings of William Blake seem to be too nervous, expressional and demonical. Though I understand the context of this art, it’s literary and philosophical component and a historical background of the epoch and I find the author a very interesting person in the history of mankind. But telling the truth, I went back again to the first exhibition to have a rest among the masterpieces of Caravaggio. The light, silence and a deep religious experience filled my soul. I think, the criterion of what we call – Christian art is in our desire of prayer. If we want to pray looking to the creation of a painter we can accept this work as a masterpiece of Christian art.
I highly recommend a book of famous Russian theologian Pavel Florensky “Iconostasis” to anyone who wants to understand what an icon is.
http://www.amazon.com/Iconostasis-Pavel-Florensky/dp/0881411175

After the Ressurection:
http://www.wikipaintings.org/en/william-blake#supersized-religious-painting-192857
http://www.caravaggio-foundation.org/Supper-at-Emmaus-2-large.html

The Nativity:
http://www.wikipaintings.org/en/william-blake#supersized-religious-painting-192956
http://caravaggio.com/preview/database/enlarged.php?id=000001

Others:
http://www.wikipaintings.org/en/william-blake#supersized-religious-painting-192934
http://www.caravaggio-foundation.org/the-complete-works.html

Dear Nataly,

First of all, I would like to extend a very warm welcome to you and we are greatly priveledged to have someone from Russia among us! I hope that you will continue to post and bring us perspective of Orthodox Christianity from Russia.

How wonderful that you were able to experience that exhibit! Thank you for the links, and I do agree with you, that Caravaggio is more soothing as religious art to the soul than Blake..I think that the soul of the artist and where he is spiritually and mentally is often evoked in his artistic expression.

I also can feel that you are obviously very passionate about iconography and that is a blessed and wonderful thing!

As a student of Art History, I can understand your passion, and I agree with you that art can bring so many different emotions to our soul--some of it spiritual, some of it soothing, some of it disturbing.

That is why art is considered 'subjective', as are all things of beauty--music, architecture, etc. (whether religious or secular)--because beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.

In Christ our Lord,
Alice

P.S. What do you think of the iconography in the Russian Orthodox Church of St. Nicholas in NYC (which I have been to)??

click here [en.wikipedia.org]

Dear Alice,

I’m happy to have a chance to communicate with brothers and sisters from other confessions and to tell them something about the Russian Orthodox Church. I see this theme causes a vivid interest among the members of this forum.
It’s so nice that you are a student of Art history! I do understand what a romantic time of search and exploration you have now! I’ve studied Art history too!


What about the Church of St. Nicholas in NYC? I want to understand what do you mean when you ask about the “iconography of the church”? If you ask about the program of frescoes, I have to see all the pictures of walls, arches, altar and apse and so on, so that I’ll try to explain what a painter wanted to tell. We must understand what we mean when we use the word “iconography”. There is a special canon (rules) - κανόνας (Greek) in a depiction of a subject or a saint. Every religious subject has it’s canonical iconography (amount of figures, heroes of the subjects, their dresses, gestures). But every subject or holy image can have its own special interpretation or can be showed in different ways. Here is the most exciting thing in the history of Byzantine art! You can take one subject for your scientific research and you will know the only one iconographic canon of this subject, but you will at the same time explore a great variety of it’s interpretations in terms of local school, traditions, cultural influences and of course a time (epoch).
For example, if we take the Annunciation icon. It is depicted always the same way: Archangel Gabriel, The Virgin Mary (in Russian Orthodox tradition - Bogoroditza – Birthgiver of God) and some architectural motifs behind. But all icons or frescoes on this subject either from the central districts of Byzantine Empire or its provinces, from ancient Russia either from Vladimir-Suzdal region or from Novgorod and other local schools, all of them are quite different not because of their iconography, but because of the special interpretation of the Annunciation subject.
And the Church of St. Nicholas in NY? If I visited it I shouldn’t think about the iconography there, but about God and prayer, I guess.
God bless you!

Annunciation icons from different times and schools:

Ustujskoe Blagoveshenie (Ustug Annunciation), Novgorod, first half of XIIth с.
http://www.megabook.ru/DescriptionImage.asp?MID=447124&AID=616197

St. Catherine’s Monastery, Sinai, XII c.
http://gabrielsmessage.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/icon_sinai_annunciation_12th_century.jpg

St. George’s Church in Kurbinovo, Macedonia, 1191
http://img0.liveinternet.ru/images/attach/c/4/81/251/81251552_large_88.jpg

Byzantine, Constantinopol, XIV c
http://ru-icons.ru/part6/part61/1_1_57-3.htm

Patmos, Greece, XVII c
http://ru-icons.ru/part15/part151/1_1_119-13.htm

Russia, academical style, XIX c.
http://ru-icons.ru/part6/part61/1_1_57-13.htm

Dear Nataly,

Christ is among us!

My mistake--I *was* a student of Art History in University, many years ago!

They aren't Byzantine, but I love the fresco iconography at the Russian Cathedral here in NYC.

Anyway, here is a nice synopsis of the church's history:

With the blessing of the newly appointed bishop of the Aleutian and Alaska Tikhon, later Patriarch of Moscow and All Russia, in September 1899 a specially established committee bought a plot of 150 yards on East 97th Street, between Madison and Fifth Avenue, valued at 72,000 rubles. On this site a temple was supposed to be build, which could accommodate 900 people, a room for Sunday school, a room for festive gatherings and apartments of the clergy. Construction costs were estimated at 114,000 rubles, or $57 000.

Two months later the Holy Synod received the highest resolution of the Emperor Nicholas Alexandrovich to collect necessary funds. To implement this Father Alexander Hotovitsky as chairman of building committee went to Russia in February 1900.

Икона для истории собораThe first installment for construction - 5,000 gold rubles - was received from the Emperor Nicholas II.

Invaluable were the prayers and moral support made by deeply honored and loved St.Father John of Kronstadtskiy. Besides, he donated 200 rubles, and on the first page of special institutions for the record books he wrote, "God Bless this book and the work, to which these donations are requested...”

The example of the Royal Family and the bishops of the Church was followed by lots of Orthodox Christians. In Russia, often after Father Alexander Hotovitsky's calls that sounded from the pulpit of churches, parishioners donated their earrings, rings, necklaces, bracelets. And yet, the funds collected were not enough for the erection of the church. Then, in 1901, on the Feast of the Epiphany, the Holy Synod decreed collecting of donations in all churches in Russia for the construction of the Orthodox cathedral in New York.

The cornerstone of the cathedral was laid on May 9 (May 22, New Style), 1901 (the day of the Translation of Saint Nicholas' relics). Throughout the route of the procession from the church on Second Avenue to 97th Street all houses were decorated with American and Russian flags. In the presence of thousands of believers who came from Washington, representatives of the Russian embassy, headed by Count Cassini, the Consul General in New York Mr. Teplov, officers and sailors of the Battleship Retvizan, that was under construction in Philadelphia, as well as New York City Mayor Seth Low, Bishop Tikhon consecrated the cornerstone.

Eighteen months later, the best American construction firm at the time, John Downey and Son "under the supervision of architect Burgess erected a building of St. Nicholas Cathedral. The first service in a newly built church was held on November 10 (23 OS), 1902. According to witnesses, it was attended by more than two thousand believers (twice the designed capacity), and no less than a thousand worshipers stood in the street. In his sermon, referring to all those present, Bishop Tikhon said, "... the church worthy of the Russian nation has been built in this great city, which meets the grandeur of the Orthodox faith".

A telegram of greetings on the occasion of the consecration of the first Russian Orthodox Cathedral in New York was obtained from Livadia from Emperor Nicholas Alexandrovich.

In 1905, Bishop Tikhon was elevated to the rank of Archbishop and moved his residence and the diocesan office from San Francisco to New York. St. Nicholas Cathedral now became the cathedral, taking upon himself the mission of the spiritual center of Russian Orthodoxy in North America.

For almost a hundred years of its existence in New York, St. Nicholas Cathedral - as a center of spiritual life and prayer - houses many sacred objects:

1. Reliquary, sent in 1901 to the cathedral as a blessing from the Holy Mount Athos - the attached list contains the names of saints whose relics are kept there.

Икона Святителя Тихона2. St. Tikhon icon with a particle of his relics, presented to the cathedral by His Holiness Patriarch Alexy II on the day of the 90th anniversary of the cathedral.

3. Altarpiece Resurrection (stained glass) donated in memory of the cathedral toiler Varvara Nikolaevna Mak Gahan (nee Elagina) in 1907.

Запрестольный крест4. Altar cross from the battleship “Retvizan”. Sailors from "Varyag"and "Retvisan" were the first parishioners and the first donors of the cathedral. Both battleships were sunk at Port Arthur in 1904.

5. "Calvary". Work of A.A. Neratov. The gift of Russian immigrants. 1950.

To the year of 1973 we refer a special event that speaks for St. Nicholas Cathedral's cultural significance in the life of the city – it became a monument of architecture in New York City and the Architectural Society of the city pinned to its wall a bronze plaque with the text that underlines the uniqueness of the building.

In 2000, the state of the church was close to crashing and it was decided to carry out repair and restoration works that were completed in 2002 to celebrate the centenary of the cathedral.

those icons are not Neo-Byzantine, they are kitsch...

Thank you, Alice very much! An interesting information. Geting acquainted with this church in NY I read a very tragical story about the St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox church near the WTC that was completely buried on September 11, 2001. Will it be rebuilt? What is going on in your long-suffering city now? Hope to hearing from you!

Thanks Joy. Yes, I attended a Liturgy there one year on the feast day of my beloved St. Xenia Petersburg.

Dear Nataly, The little Greek Orthodox church of St. Nicholas which was buried in the 9/11 tragedy, after many negotiations with the Port Authority of the City which is in charge of rebuilding the whole area, has finally been given the right to rebuild, and it will be larger and more glorious this time...

My priest went to help with the rescue effort after this tragedy, and they found some wax candles under the ash which he brought to church and used in the memorial service (panakhida)which we had for the dead of that tragedy... There were more than a few Orthodox Christians who perished that day.

Here is some information and photos of the old church. It was so small, but such a peaceful little place where people went from all walks of life and all religions to pray and meditate in the middle of the busy financial district of NYC. It was originally built for the Orthodox sailors who would come into port a at the beginning of the 1900's. Also, the icons of the church were a gift by Tsar Nicholas II.

http://www.nyc-architecture.com/GON/GON002.htm

Best regards,
Alice

Alice - there's something missing in your post

Hehehe, I am so scatter brained! (I don't know if that phrase is in vogue anymore, but my mother always liked to use it!)

Thanks, Anhelyna, for bringing it to my attention!

You are welcome Alice, I would not recognize it as there have been many changes since my time (1980's) and all those I know who attended are long gone. I did however also sing for the canonization of the former Tsar at the Synod Cathedral on 92th Street (we ran from 97th to 92nd as we had been asked to participate, art knew no boundries in those days), that was something interesting to see.