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Hi,

It appears that some parishes serve multiple liturgies on Sunday and some even have another one on Saturday night. What is the reason and how exactly is it possible? Meaning do they use multiple altars/antimension etc. I always thought that a priest could only serve one liturgy on a Sunday. I am just curious not trying to criticize.

In some cases, two liturgies are required on Sunday because the Church itself is too small to accommodate the entire congregation. In others, the parish is the only church serving a wide area, and a second liturgy is laid on to accommodate people who must drive long distances to get there (I know people who make a 150 mile round trip).

But it must be said in most cases, there really is no excuse for having two or more Liturgies on Sunday, or for having the so-called "vigil Liturgy" on Saturday evening. The latter is certainly just an imitation of the perniciously bad Latin habit of laying on a 5PM Saturday Mass in honor of Our Lady of Soccer Practice or those who need an early start on the pilgrimage to the beach.

The Liturgical Instruction allows that attending Vespers on Saturday evening can fulfill the "Sunday obligation" (for those who dig such language), the purpose being here to revitalize liturgical celebration of the Liturgy of the Hours. But I have been told outright by a priest that a certain jurisdiction rejects that precept and will only celebrate Saturday Vespers in conjunction with the Divine Liturgy (AKA "Verspergy"), on the assumption that nobody would show up for a non-Eucharistic service. A number of other priests, however, have condemned this practice as uncanonical and a latinization.

On the theme of 'vespergies', the Greek Orthodox parish in my part of Wales has vesperal liturgies on the eves of many feast days. Is this common elsewhere?

Fr Mark

I have attended Vesperal Liturgies in the UGCC as well

Thanks Anhelyna - I should add that I was thinking of vesperal liturgies on the days when they are not appointed by the ustav/typikon.

Thanks for the information Stuart.

Fr Mark, I have been to Vesperal Liturgies in the Antiochian Archdiocese but they are on the actual feast day. They are well attended. I would imagine they do it that way so that people can actually attend. The Antiochian Archdiocese is the only Orthodox Jurisdiction in the US that I am aware of that does this.

The Typicon in some cases does call for Vespers and the Divine Liturgy to be celebrated on the even of certain feasts--but on not any old Saturday.

I have only noticed it on Christmas Eve (GOA).

Interesting information here and in your earlier post too, thanks Stuart.

At the Russian Catholic chapel I sometimes go to, the standard schedule is Vespers Sat evening, liturgy once Sun morning. But for major feasts it's usually a "vesperal liturgy" the day before. This might be because of staffing, or perhaps it's just appropiate for those feasts? I don't know enough to say.

Anyway, as to your other post, I just wanted to point out, as I am wont to, that the Eastern and Western traditional practices actually agree. Evening Mass, and the idea of fulfilling the obligation for Sunday on Saturday evening, derive from permissions granted by Pius XII in the 50s. However traditionally in the Latin Rite, Mass is in the morning and bination by priests is discouraged, with the exception of things like the Easter Vigil. (The restoration of the Easter Vigil to the evening actually makes a lot of sense). It's also the Western tradition to have I and II Vespers of great feasts and of Sundays in the parish churches, but this has become sadly very rare. It was once routine, however, and I pray that this will return in the West.

In Volume VI of his history of the Divine Liturgy, Fr. Taft reports comments from one of his colleagues (Parenti, I think), who observed evening liturgies for Sunday in Greece. I believe they took place on Saturday evening. He also reported that the bishops there have allowed a second liturgy to be celebrated on Sunday at later hour and (if memory serves) is a slightly abbreviated form.

Actually, permission for evening Masses in the 1950s was for the date itself, not the evening prior: Sunday Mass could be celebrated on Sunday evening or a Feast day on the evening of the Feast.

The Saturday evening practice was something initiated in the last 1960s--I remember when it first came about and our pastor explicitly stated from the pulpit that this was an abuse and was only meant to fulfill the Mass obligation for those who worked Sunday morning or had a vital need to travel. It wasn't long, however, and people just got into the habit of ignoring that kind of instruction. The phrase "getting it over with" then came into vogue.

It's interesting to note that when we lived in the Archdiocese of Philadelphia during the late 1970s, Cardinal Krol was the only Catholic bishop in North America that did not give permission for evening Masses, whether on Sunday, the Feast, or the evening prior. Made things a bit rough. But his reasoning was the same as my pastor--it was an abuse that did not need to be.

Bob

What a shame, Bob...it is such a nice ritual for families to take their children to Church on Sunday mornings and then share a meal together like everyone from every Christian faith tradition did when I was growing up...since so few Catholics do that in my area (but rather fulfill their obligation other times, and children's catechism classes are scheduled during the week), soccer practice and such activities are always scheduled for Sunday mornings.

Sunday mornings for all people seem to have now become synonymous with sleeping in, brunches and eating out, jogging, sports activities for children, etc. I really think that if Roman Catholics were obligated to go on Sunday mornings, and didn't have the other options, so much of that would change. So many of the Christians in the NE are Roman Catholic.

I think that having Sunday School/catechism for children on Sunday mornings helps get lazy parents into church. I know some people in my faith tradition (GOA) criticize it, but I would make a bet that 2/3 of the young parents there wouldn't be there if there was no Sunday School for the children scheduled-- and our churches are jam packed on Sunday mornings.

My theory stands because as those children grow up and out of Sunday School, many of those parents disappear never to be seen again at a Liturgy! (They are then replaced by younger families) What a shame for their souls--they seem to be so easily sucked into secular society and its norms.

My recollection of the timing of those changes is identical to Bob's, as is my recollection of how it quickly came to be merely a matter of convenience rather than necessity.

And, I agree with Alice's perceptions of the effects as well. I don't see it in the Eastern parishes in the area, as most around here don't offer Saturday Vesperal/Vigil Divine Liturgies or weekday CCD, but I routinely see the situation she describes in the Latin parishes.

Many years,

Neil

The fact that some people abuse a pastoral accommodation that exists to meet a genuine need for some is not sufficient reason to take away that accommodation entirely.

It's when most people abuse a pastoral accommodation, to the point of believing it to be normative rather than exceptional, that it should be suppressed.